Papacy Pacification

[NodachiSam]

I guess spurred on my EYG's HRE thread I started a HRE game a little while ago. I began in high and only on normal GA.

Anyways, I used to be allied with the Pope and even crusaded against my former but excomunnicated ally the French. It was their choice to abandon our alliance by way of a alliance triangle. He helped defend one of my provinces and we were good buddies in that two zealous, ruthless, intollerant dictators who had ambitions to reunite all of the old Roman empire under a single government (secular and sectarian respectively) kind of way.

I don't remember how exactly but the two of us went to war. He attacked me after unallying when he saw an opportunity or I was excommunicated and we we neutral or some sort of combination and I ended up taking Rome and the Papal states. I put lots of soldiers in Rome and left the Papal States fairly empty but the vast majority of his men showed up in Rome anyways so I decided to leave it to him since it meant guarding fewer provinces.

It has been a long time since we've fought, I'm no longer excomunicated, and I really want to crusade but he will not accept a truce despite my persistance. I have a bishop who has been bringing the subject up for years and now a cardinal but no dice. He really holds a grudge. I do have inquisitors leveling up on his generals by the way, would this affect it? Do you guys have any suggestions?



Here is what the map looks like right now, sorry that this shot doesn't include all of Italy. I have recently taken Kiev and need to fight off a huge turkish invasion force that took advantage of me finally losing my ship in the black sea. Another one has taken its place so if I win it, it will be a massive blow to them since they'll lose a heck of a lot of routers or get a big ransom because they have some valuable governers.

[Weebeast]

The French are about to be off-mainland. You only need to kick them out of Mercia. Extend the war a little longer so that they run out of money. Capture their soldiers. If they run out of money they won't be able to build ships in Cyprus thus you don't have to worry about them killing your children anymore. March to Mercia!

I do that a lot to Byzantine and Sicily. LOL I don't have to worry about re-emergence.

[edit] I thought you're talking about the French lol. Anyway, if you're no longer excommunicated then why are you not able to launch crusade?

The only easiest option you have is to eliminate the Pope. Then after that evacuate Rome. Don't forget to destroy all buildings for extra florins.

[ajaxfetish]

Perhaps eliminating him again and then leaving Rome to go rebel until he returns will put you back at peace? Otherwise I don't know how to get back on his good side. I suppose overcoming excommunication is easier than ending war.

Gaah . . . why must peace be so difficult?! (new game idea? Medieval: Total Peace--everyone can train hippies, liberal diplomats, and humanitarian workers, but NO soldiers!)

[EatYerGreens]

@NoDachiSam,

I read a thread, somewhere, suggesting that factions will stubbornly decline offers of ceasefire for as long as any of their starting provinces are in enemy hands.

Nevertheless, in my game, I voluntarily handed back Rome and he still holds the Papal States but STILL refuses a ceasfire. He did briefly control Tuscany, with my force under siege in the fort, so I'm left wondering if it keeps track of every province it has ever owned and won't ceasefire until it's got all of them back again. Gah!

In the meantime, I'd go with ajaxfetish's advice. You'll have to wipe out the Papacy's three stacks in Rome and complete the siege so that the Papacy is eliminated completely. Put down any rebellions until you've had 2-3 years of stability then pull all of your forces out of Papal States and Rome, so that loyalty falls below 120% and wait for re-emergence. With luck, the Pope will re-emerge in both places at once but, if not, he'll soon retake the other empty one. Since there was no battling, hopefully he will be neutral to you and you can crusade once more. If the territory changeing hands is counted as a war, then try obtaining ceasefire again at this point. If he attacks your lands, it doesn't trigger an excom.

Just curious:- why do you have no ports in Genoa & Tuscany? Is this XL Mod - limited trade income and all that?

[Roark]

Don't forget to burn everything before you pull out of the Papal lands.

I tend to try and avoid the re-emergence altogether:

1. Take the Papal States and burn everything.
2. Move out of the Papal States
3. Wait for the Papacy to retake the province.
4. Take Rome and keep it.

The Papal States doesn't have a good income and, if the Pope has to start from scratch on the tech-tree, you'll have many a year of peace before he's in a position to strike again..

[NodachiSam]

I've had a busy week but now I can relax again, hehe.

Weebeast: Hehe, guessed so. I usually don't try to take out the Pope I killed the pope when I invaded and the garrison was rebel or too small to retake the papal states or something I don't remember. I'll demainland the French eventually but I need to pacify the locals first in wessex first. Both the english and French have very week garrisons though. Oddly the rebels in the north could all kick their arses.

ajaxfetish: Lol That is a good idea and I might try it.

EYG: Thanks for the information. That pope is trouble isn't he? Perhaps I will let Rome rebel so when the Pope comes back he doesn't have to attack one of my provinces. Rome really is a very significant province symbolically but given the situation I think I would prefer to keep him there since it can be guarded with fewer troops.

I would love to start some med trade but the waters have been hostile for a long time with every cath faction at war with me at one point or another. More importantly I've built my faction on a knife's (edit: safe's edge, yeesh) edge financially. I want to stablize for a while now since I am apparently the biggest faction for now.

Roark: I burnt everything the first time I came in and didn't rebuild anything hehe. The pope only has a fort in Rome and hasn't built anything new in a while so I figure he's broke. Hehe Thanks for the advice though.

[EatYerGreens]

I do like the state of that map though. Large, well defined, empires and everyone of them in a geographically appropriate position (give or take England and France being practically extinct). None of this patch-work mess we usually see. I remember one pre-VI conquest game I did where the French had somehow stayed alive, despite having been pushed east as far as Livonia/Lithuania sort of area.

I think the best way of eliminating the re-emergence nuisance is to squeeze a faction down until it has just one province left and then let it sit there in the mess of its own debt. In conquest mode you could have a series of climactic last battles (four or five per year) and get the whole thing over with before any re-emergence has time to occur.