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Thread: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

  1. #31

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    FYI, playing WRE campaign on H/H.

    This point was already mentioned in a couple threads, but is important for WRE. In the mid to late game, you probably want your best army (or armies if you lucky) under the command of a loyal general (this fact applies even if they are the faction leader).

    Alternatively, you can use captains only for full stack armies or switch generals frequently.

    I'm not sure if my game is just extra hard, but I lost Spain not due to insufficient troops or money, but lack of loyalty. Twice my campaign army sent to Spain to recapture the provinces decided to mutiny. The final time, I sent a captain and took over the region and moved into France without problems.

    That being said, the final army I sent was very experienced (retook Africa and defended against 2 hordes near Rome) and well equipped though still in the lower tier Roman units, so having a general would have been icing and not necessary to win battles.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I was thinking of disbanding ALL forces , destroying ALL buildings except in Italy and start from the beginning as is in pre-republican era. Don't know how long it will last. Has anyone tried it before ?
    Say: O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve, nor do you serve what I serve, nor shall I serve what you are serving, nor shall you be serving what I serve.
    To you your religion, and to me my religion.

  3. #33
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT
    I was thinking of disbanding ALL forces , destroying ALL buildings except in Italy and start from the beginning as is in pre-republican era. Don't know how long it will last. Has anyone tried it before ?
    I have a save game that I return to on a regular basis that fit your description however I kept the 4 Italian cities, Carthago, Syracuse, Caralis and Massilia. I raised all buildings in all other settlements, pulled the troops out and retook them and exterminated its population before leaving them completely. This generated som much cash that I was able to fill up the building- and unit building ques completely and still have around 50k in my treasury. I kept enough troops to have one stack holding the bridge in the Poo-valley and another the one outside Massilia.
    Been playing for over 50 years and the Vandals have settled in Iberia, the Goths in south France, Franks have taken the rest of France, the Huns are settled in former Goth lands and Sarmatians has evicted ERE from Constantinople and Greece. My spies inform me that all the hording faction has atleast three settlements each and no horde units left with pretty decent garrisons so the are defenitely settled. I´m waiting to see if the Vandals actually will make the jump to Carthage and Goth will move on their target provinces.
    My goal now will be to retake the Balkans and Greece so that Danube will be my NE border. I bribed three settlements in the N.Black Sea and gave them to the Sarmatians so they will not turn into a horde when I take Greece from them but rather move back to their former homelands, he he.

    BTW, has anyone else noticed how hard it is with 1.3 to give away a settlement?
    Last edited by PseRamesses; 10-29-2005 at 12:23.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    there is on one of those split screen things while loading etc, a group of men in HORNED HELMETS with axes and shields destroying a villiage.

    I have search through the custom battle thing and havnt been able to find these units. Does anyone have any ideas as to who they are and who they belong to?
    And he rose, and spoke forth, "Go my warriors, go forward to victory!"

  5. #35

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Originally Posted by LestaT
    I was thinking of disbanding ALL forces , destroying ALL buildings except in Italy and start from the beginning as is in pre-republican era. Don't know how long it will last. Has anyone tried it before ?
    I really like this idea, looking at the map the Po valley is the natural line of defence for italy, while Massilia can help secure the valley from invasions form the west, wow i am hooked gonna try that tonight....

  6. #36

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I read a post on the CA board that said it is easier to sell settlements than give them away. Has anyone tried this? If it works, that would be a killer WRE strategy.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I can’t even get the computer to accept settlements for free. There is something seriously wrong with diplomacy in BI. It’s nearly impossible to get the AI to accept any terms. I can’t even get trade rights accepted.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I've been able to give trade rights away, but no one will pay for them any more.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    The first time I played the WRE within 3 turns half the empire rebelled suffice to say I gave up there and then.

    Anyway I started again earlier on H/H and im at 375 and ive held onto most of my territory, there was a rebellion in which Lepis in Africa, Salamancia (sp?) in Spain, a territory in central Gaul, Pannonia and Dalmatia were apart of. However i'd destroyed much military infrastructure so they were low class armies. BTW i'm using the Pax Britannia mod so the WRE starts without Britain and the Romano-British have it, anyway.

    Religious problems were dealt with immediately by destroying 90% of pagan buildings, except in provinces where this was to risky and moving pagan and christian generals about. Rioting was fierce in Spain however in time this died down.

    Ecnomically by destroying many buildings I propped the economy up along with disbanding many Foederati infantry and cavalry and a large percentage of my fleet.

    Loyalty wise I moved the capital from Rome to Massilia, bang smack in the middle of the empire which has helped stopping Spain from rebelling totally. Things in Spain got better still when the territory which had earlier rebelled came back over to me peacefully through a loyalist revolt. This left the Gallic rebel territory isolated and within 5 years this territory and 2 others in the east were recovered from rebels and plenty of money was made.

    Militarily, well I had no standing field army so I created provincial armies, small mobile light forces to deal with local rebellions and border skirmishers, this was the backbone of the raid which resulted in the destruction of the Alemanni after the conquest of their capital. Which so many cities exterminated I was able to build vital infrastructure, roads, trading posts, ports, farming, sewers and later military infrastructure in key locations.

    After 10 years I was in a position to allocate serious funding to the army, my 1 field army was comprised of most of the garrison from Rome and other Comis and Foed (inf and cav) from the eastern provinces and is currently stationed east of the Alps to deal with the Frankish raids of Pannonia. In the west my provincial armed forces were designed purely for a holding action to keep the frontier stable without doing anything dramatic and they achieved this very well for very little expense

    Navy, again after about 10 years the fleet with rebuilt to deal with the pirates which blockaded Syracuse (which I later allowed to rebel then exterminated) now I have control over the central med and adriatic again.

    I've only gotten to 375 and done well I think, my treasury is currently at 10,000d making a modest profit of 1500 or so, in the last 1 or so though things have gotten harder. The Berbers reacted to a failed attack on Tingi by seizing Carthage after a bloody assault on the city, the Franks have also crossed the Danube and raided the territory heavily necessitating the constant presence of the I Italico legion to remain peaceful. The Franks have now began raiding the Rhine frontier which isnt guarded as heavily as I would like, but financial restraints are making it difficult to raise enough troops.

    WRE is extremely enjoyable to play im glad to say

  10. #40

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Notes for two games with WRE.

    1st. Took it easy, prevented rebellion, didn't attempt to christianize those that where too pagan until things were stable. Economy acceptable, but boring and with many pagans left to cause trouble.

    2nd. Tried too enforce Christianity from beginning, not as easy as for the ERE (where it can be done in 1 turn), revolts, about -50k when profits where finally made (retook cities taken by WRE rebels), but more fun, and when things settle, economy was actually quite good (relatively speaking).

    One important note whatever way is choosen, when you can build ports in those provinces that lacks them. And never forget the hordes, they will probably cause trouble sooner or later.
    We have this almost mythical tree, given to us by the otherwise hostile people in the east to symbolize our friendship and give us permission to send caravans through their lands. It could be said to symbolize the wealth and power of our great nation. Cut it down and make me a throne.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I'm happy to say things have gotten alot better for me since i've been playing today, the main stumbling block is diplomacy though, i've offered ceasefires for 20 years to about 7 different factions and never had one accepted . Which is incredibly annoying and highly unrealistic especially when I offer great terms like territory for hordes etc.

    Anyway my major enemy has been the Franks but in the last 8 years they were largely dealt with, the by now imfamous Nero Flavius was the commander of my eastern army with a alarming loyalty of 2. He crossed the Sava defeated the Franks multiple times then seizing campus quadi and campus marcomanni before exterminating them then abandoning them.

    As this went on my western field army sought to relieve pressure on the Rhine by crossing the river and defeating 3 Frankish armies the marching north cleared the countryside of other Frankish armies before turning to Tribus Frisii which was captured and exterminated.

    I never remained in these territories longer than 1 turn simply to replace lost troops, i'd then abandon it to the western roman rebels, who have created a buffer state from the Rhine to the Danube for me by using this policy. By now the Franks were a horde, having no more territory and soon enough they migrated to the Rhine this time though they are fighting the rebels and not me so I can sit back and reflect on enormously successful campaigns along the Rhine and Sava .

    Economy wise its still touch and go i've had to exterminate a few cities including Corduba to make money, and since the ERE blockaded my ports trade has plummeted and there is also war with the Huns in the east. I'm currently raising a small army to clear the birgands within the empire and then invade north africa for a quick raid before campaigning beyond the Rhine yet again. All in all its been far more fun than my old ERE saves

  12. #42

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Here are my thoughts on the Western Roman Empire, which in my opinion is the second or third hardest faction to play as:

    As you start off your campaign you will see a lot of red angry faces in most of your towns. When you investigate why, you will notice that 25-45% of the population in France and Spain are Christian and the rest Pagan. There is also huge capital distance penalties.

    Further investigation will also tell you that most of your settlements lack even basic ports! Your family members are a mix of Christian and Pagan, adding even more problems in certain towns where they are governors.

    Seems pretty bleak so far right? Don't distress, there are three strategies available to us. I haven't tried them all, but I will "theorize" on possible strategies.

    1. Leave your empire a mixture of Christian and Pagan towns: this is the strategy I chose. This gave me the least amount of rebelion. Only Carnuntun, and Salona rebelled. Ravenna rebelled because I was silly enough to convert it to Christianity first turn. Move Titus Flavius away from Lepcis Magna(or is it num?), you can keep him as a mobile reinforcement to both Lepcis and Carthage. Keep Lepcis as Christian.

    Now you have to go to each city and adjust their tax rates, but before you do that move your capital to Massilia like everyone else has told you. Destroy military buildings to get some cash, and train some peasants to help keep your cities under control.

    Carnuntun and Sallona are lost causes, destroy all buildings, build Christian temples and leave them to the rebels. That's my advice. It hopefully creates a buffer between you and the hordes. In Aquincun there is a mighty Christian general that you might want to move towards Ravenna. So you might want to leave Aquincum to the rebels also.

    Also disband all fleets that you deem unnecessary. Chances are you will be in the red for a while. You have to try and get rid of as much of the fat in your military as you can.

    Once you finally have turned most if not all cities to blue constipated faces you are ready for your next turn. Ok, now you are probably hemorraging money. Look at all you cities again, between Rome, Mediollanium and Ravenna you should be able to raise a nice sized army without throwing these cities into open revolt. You have three immediate enemies, the Franks, the Alemanni and the Saxons. Unless you have a modded game, the Alemanni don't form hordes. Kill them quickly. Your next mission is to prepare for a very likely Frank attack. I will assume you are a better player than me and know how to do this better.

    As Christianity disappears from Spain and France you will be able to raise the taxes, and by capturing the Alemanni capital get a good cash boost from looting. After some 5-10 turns you should be breaking even or making some money. My priority as soon as I made some money was to build ports. After I built ports in all my cities I was bringing in about 8k per turn. After that The goal is to keep the Berbers at bay, I was at war with the Franks and I captured his capital with troops brought up from Italy (your major troops producing region after you destroyed your military buildings for cash in the beginning). Things were going ok, but it was still hard to raise an army since my focus was mainly economical buildup. I also figured out that using spies in combination with assassins can be a potent fun combination. I severly crippled the Franks by destroying their troop producing buildings in the town he got from me. Beware of Paladin bodyguards, they make short work of Foederati and Limitanei, 4 units of them will made short work of my garrison.

    With a good economy it shouldn't be too hard to beat back the Franks and prepare for the other hordes. The Christian general from Aquincum can converts cities to Christianity in a flash so you can eventually turn most of your empire into Christianity if you choose.

    Now for the next two options, and some heavy theory:

    2. Turn your empire Christian on the first turn: this option has the least appeal to me. Basically you turn all of Spain and France Christian leaving yourself only Italy and North Africa. After doing this you could form armies in Spain and France with your generals in these regions and go around beating the crap out of the rebels. By looting the rebel cities you should make a good amount of cash.

    With this cash surplus you can effectively build a solid economy and military. I just don't like loosing over half my empire and have to go around recapturing it all. It's like I am walking backwards.

    The benefits of this strategy is that you have effectively turned your empire Christian, gave yourself nice juicy targets to loot and dealt with rebellion problems for a while. Hordes are invariably Pagan, so they will have issues taking your Christian cities because the AI doesn't destroy existing buildings. Your pagan generals will be used for the fighting so inevitably one or two will die in battle, and eventually they will die off. In my Frank game I switched to Christianity by assigning my only Christian member as King. After that all my new Generals were Christian. So you shouldn't have more than one or two new generals come as pagan.

    I think this is the most challenging scenario.

    3. Turn your empire pagan: if you have a mod that takes care of your Emperor becoming disloyal this can be an effective way of keeping Nero Flavius in check and be able to use him. Make him your heir, now you can use the same strategy as the first option, but now over time even Italy will be turned pagan. Use your Emperor as the lead against the Alemanni and see if you can't kill him on a suicide charge.

    The benefits of going pagan is that most of your empire is already pagan anyways. The Mithras temple gives you experience bonuses, and with Nero as your emperor you have a good General to lead your armies without the risk of him going rebel on you.

    Conclusion: I like the first and third methods. I prefer the historical slow Christian conversion. If you like a challenge I would go Christian right away, lots of looting and fighting to be done as you reconquer your empire. Of course you can vary any of these strategies to your liking. Perhaps you rather only sacrifice Spain to Christianity, or maybe just France and Britain. In short there's a lot of options for the WRE, and I don't think any one of them is the correct one. I do think that keeping a mixed empire until you can get the economy going is the easiest.

  13. #43

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Apparently I made a mistake. Nero Flavius is Christian. Also I tried to turn the Empire Christian the first turn. That was a mess. Even after taking back most of my Empire I just couldn't make enough money to get out of the red. The looting money wasn't enough to cover my army's upkeep. And I didn't want to eliminate them outright.

    I guess I will just go back to option 1.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Not sure whether or not I should be happy at the moment im upto 422 and after the Franks horded in Central Gaul I had to chase 4 full stacks down with only 1 stack. Smashing them in 3 seperate battles and then wiping up the remaining Franks they were totally destroyed relieving me of 1 major threat permanently. Which was great of course.

    Things elsewhere though have deteriorated, the Saxons breached the Rhine frontier and seized Germania Inferior and then exterminated the population, the city has been retaken but its now in ruins. Pirates now sail unchallenged throughout most imperial waters, one hastily gathered fleet was crushed on the coast of Gaul by a pirates fleet of some 18 ships. With the expense of training a fleet and building aqueducts etc i'm effectively bankrupt, having to resort to allowing corduba to rebel to exterminate it and get money.

    The Berbers gained more territory against me in North Africa leaving me with the city of Tingi as my last outpost and Sicily seems hellbent on rebelling, to make matters worse throughout all the chaos of the Frankish invasions I didnt have time to keep my authority over the brigands who have popped up throughout the empire again.

    I'll give BI this, it keeps me busy alright
    Last edited by _Aetius_; 12-08-2005 at 19:06.

  15. #45
    Member Member masuro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT
    I was thinking of disbanding ALL forces , destroying ALL buildings except in Italy and start from the beginning as is in pre-republican era. Don't know how long it will last. Has anyone tried it before ?
    I tried it today and it won't work for me. I pulled out my troops, destroyed all the buildings, and let it revolt. A few of the cities become the Western Roman Rebels and the others just kill soldiers and citizens. They don't become regular rebel cities. And many of the Western Roman Rebel cities flip back to me. I can't give the cities away to anybody, not even allies. I am now about 50,000 in debt and can see no way out of it.
    The most disgraceful thing, in their view, is telling lies, and the next most disgraceful thing is being in debt; but the main reason (among many others) for the proscription of debt is that, according to the Persians, someone who owes money is obliged to tell lies as well.
    -Herodotus, The Histories

  16. #46

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Don't just disband everything haphazardly. Disband systematically, and keep checking the financial side. The first turn needs total micro-management - its your most important phase as the WRE.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    You should disband most of your cavalry and Foederati infantry they cost to much and arent that useful anyway, your generals units are more than powerful enough and foederati infantry are pathetic you need to aim for 30,000 den army upkeep for the army to be financially viable. Also get rid of some of the navy, you just cant maintain the size of the armed forces you currently have.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Right. If you go for the Italy only option you have to get rid of your fleet, and all of the armies of the cities you are deserting. They should all turn to the WRER. All you need are your family members to take those towns back if you got rid of all buildings in them.

    I decided to try turning my empire Christian in the first turn and was quite successful. I am not turning a 6-8k a turn profit with two field armies. I have already defeated the Gothic hordes and the Alemanni. I drove the Franks away and only Burdigala and Eburacum are in the hands of the WRER. Unfortunately Carnuntun, Salona and Aquincun were sacked by the Vandals. Until I get rid of them I won't bother getting them back.

    The downside of using your Generals to do all your fighting, you don't get many heirs. The huns seem to always settle in Tribus Lazyges after they sack Campus Dacia and force the Goths into a horde.

    The trick to being sucessful with the WRE is cutting your forces down enough so that you can keep your cities content, but turn a profit in a reasonable time. The first couple of turns are key.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    You only need to defend the frontiers cities from invasion, its bad because that means the interior of your empire is very soft, but you cant afford it so thats just to bad.

    Some people fall into the trap of attacking brigand armies, you have the men to beat many of them, but you dont have the money to replace men or retrain them. So you'll just have to accept the fact the brigands dominate the countryside for now, peasant stack cities in the heart of your empire, central gaul, spain and southern italy, basically areas relatively deep inside your empire therefore less likely to be attacked. Make sure the Alemanni are destroyed immediately just get an army and take their single province, problem solved right there.

    Aslong as you hold the frontiers and have sufficient archers in walled cities you should hold 90% or so of your starting territory, depending on your religious policy and the subsequent western rebels appearance and how many provinces go over to them. Just make sure atleast 1 field army is present on the Rhine at all times, you'll also need atleast 1 for the eastern provinces along the Sava (very hard to hold so dont be to worried if you lose it) aside from that most of your enemies are to far away or to small to be dangerous alone so aslong as the frontiers are well guarded you'll survive.

    If brigands become a problem and seriously drain trade, then make an army from local garrisons and a spare general and try defeating them that way, just dont waste men and money on trying to eradicate them all though. Brigands tend to hire veteranii mercenaries (sp?) who are as good as Comis so are extremely good heavy infantry. Also do what you can against the pirate fleets, you cant afford a big fleet it just costs to much to train ships in the first place so just do what you can.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I went back and tried to turn my empire Christian in the first turn. I left Mediolanium, Arles, Massilia, Rome, Ravenna, a city to the North of Mediolanium, the heel city (Tarentum?), Carthage, Lepcis Magna, Syracuse, Caralis and Londinium alone. I then disbanded every army in the cities that I was going to turn Christian and give to the rebels. I also destroyed everybuilding that I could.

    With that money I built Christian shrines, and peasants wherever I needed to keep the population in check. The family members that were in France and Spain were herded together to form two armies. In Spain I went on a Reconquista. In France I was determined in wiping out the Alemanni, and hopefully the Franks.

    It took two turns for my empire to split. The Reconquista took longer than I thought it would, mostly because I underestimated the WRER's ability to produce massive amounts of peasants. I quickly smashed the Alemanni, but the Franks had already taken two cities to the east. I then took Vicus Franki from them.

    In the mean time I tried to put together an army at Ravenna to deal with the incoming hordes. To lead this army I used the General that was stationed at Aquincun, who thankfully has the night fighting ability.

    Once I took Vicus Franki, I left an able general in charge and took Nero Flavius, now caesar, on a tour of France. By this time I got Colonia Aggripina on a revolt.

    The hordes are at my doorstep now. The Vandals and the Goths go into war, but never fight each other, so I have to start trying to kill them both. Thanks to a series of forts I was able to hinder their movement and kill them one stack at a time with my night fighting general.

    One thing that I noticed about the WRE, is that you really don't need high level troops. The Sarmatian Auxilia and the Comitatenses are more than enough to conquer the world. Though the carriage ballistae are very fun to play with.

    Ok, so by this time I have beaten back the Franks, the Hordes are thining out and most of France is in my possession. This is about the time that I decide to turn back towards the Saxons, because they decided to attack me. The Reconquista is in its last stages.

    Through all of this the Berbers have kept annoying me at Carthage. But their troops really suck, so they are not a problem.

    Nero Flavius conquers the Saxons, while I try to finish off the Vandals. The Goths were quickly anihilated on their attempt at penetrating my very soft empire. I mean if you get past my army, all you had to deal with were peasant garrisons.

    By the time I dealt with the Saxons, killed off the Vandals and Goths, the Franks had a nice little Empire of four provinces going. Time to take it down. At this time the Lombardi decided that they needed to take the only Burgundian town. And there I was stuck trying to take care of yet another horde! Nero Flavius to the rescue. This guy lived to be like 72, and everytime he exterminated a town, I got like 50% more cash. He was also the highest level general I have ever used. I think he was a 9 star General? I don't remember lol.

    I finally retake Burdigala leaving only Eburacum to the WRER. From here on out it was very easy going. The Franks didn't offer much resistance, the Burgundians were a walk over, and the ERE's only attempt to take Aquincun failed miserably at my walls. They had a superior army, but couldn't capitalize on it.

    I marched on to take Sirmium and then Constantinople.

    Ah, this was easier than trying to play as Sarmatia. The trick to the WRE is the beginning. Once you start turning a profit it's not hard to win the game. You have two night fighting generals which help immensily when fighting the hordes. And you have four factions around you that don't horde, which are not very hard to eliminate. Well the Celts never attacked me, so I never fought them, but I doubt that they are much tougher than the Saxons.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Are there any guides for the Western Roman Empire Rebels?

  22. #52

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    A good Plan B to have as the WRE is to take your legions and cavalry from Rome, send them to Africa to crush the Berbers. The Berbers only have two cities with one coastal city. If you take out the coastal city their pretty much screwed and then you can move into the interior and destroy their last city. This ensures that Africa is completely in your control so if something happens to Rome and such, at least you'll have a good place to fall back to with the ocean covering as distance.

    Once the Berbers are crushed, just send the remaining troops back to Italy. The Berbers are not that hard to take on with your heavy legions.
    Last edited by nameless; 01-08-2006 at 03:17.

  23. #53

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I decided to take a different path-rather than convert the empire to Christianity I decided to revert to paganism. Most of what I do here can be applied to most divided religion factions in either end of the fence.

    To start with I switched my faction heir to the most prominent pagan within the empire and after transferring all his cronies to this heir I sent him on a suicide mission to hold the eastern provinces against the oncoming hordes. By using Christian characters as generals rather than governors I avoided the issue of cross religion clashes in the Empire. To compensate for the limited amount of pagan characters I trained several at Rome who all turned out pagan. In regards to choice of temple I recommend your ‘strong points’ (major cities you plan to garrison with a large army as a base of operations in the region) have Mithras temples. Allowing for meaty bonus’ for the army in terms of experience allowing them more clout to fight the invasions. In non-key cities I recommend sol invictus for the superior law bonus to keep the population happy.
    I actually found paganism reversion to be easier than Christian consolation. This I suspect is because of how easy it is to control the Christian cities since they're all close to the Imperial core. I built a monastery before trashing the cathedral in Rome allowing me to build priests despite my now 100% pagan population...if anyone asks they're priests of Mithras (ahem) and if anyone disagrees with me I know where they live and I'm the emperor . I did however keep Carthage Christian. This was because of its distance from the capital (moved further north). It also gave me somewhere to 'deport' Christian governors with their bits of the one true cross, john the Baptists underpants and all those theologians. The vast wads of cash I receive having fully revitalized cartages economy make this worthwhile.


    This combined with my tendacy to hire 'pure' roman units is and repaired economy is gradually sending the roman empire on the road back to the its old glory.



    dun dun dunnnnnn duh du du du
    dah dah duuuuuunnn.....


    more to come as the game progresses
    Roma locuta est. Causa finita est

  24. #54

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    IIRC there are a lot more pagan generals than Christian. Though the Christian generals seem to be better. I think as long as you can make the Empire turn a profit it doesn't matter what religion you choose.

  25. #55
    Daimyo, Sultan & True Roman Member Crian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT
    I was thinking of disbanding ALL forces , destroying ALL buildings except in Italy and start from the beginning as is in pre-republican era. Don't know how long it will last. Has anyone tried it before ?
    Hey I tried this! It was really interesting, instead of pulling your hair out from all the problems popping all over the empire, why not start from a more manageable position then build up from there, right? First, however, you have to CREATE that situation.

    EVERYTHING other than the cities you want to have left MUST be forced to rebel. Disband every unit in every city outside of Italy (personally, I chose to retain Syracuse, Lepcis Magna and Caralis?) and crank taxes up to very high. Retain a sizeable force for defense though. At the next turn, your money will get a boost of around 20,000, along with most (if not all) those cities going rebel.

    However, I almost immediately realized that this situation created all new problems. Now you get significantly smaller income, and pirates are all over the place disrupting what little trade you get. I decided to lose the emperor, and get a new one. First, consolidate your navy in one place so they can defend better. Next, get a better faction leader. The governor of Caralis (don't remember his name), has 6 or so management scrolls, and I set him as the faction heir. Meanwhile, all my other rebellious, nearly talentless generals (including the faction leader) were placed on a solitary brireme, and were set out to sea to look for pirate ship stacks that would sink them. I placed the new faction heir in Rome.

    While you're doing this, you can actually go red or have little income for 10+ years, struggling to develop your trade. Cities will constantly join with you, only to go rebel again after a few turns. I suggest not to invest into any loyalist revolts unless you can make sure you can maintain control of the city. The Eastern Roman Empire will almost always go to war with you, but they have bigger fish to fry and so you can expect that you won't be number one in their list. The big picture is that almost everyone else will be at war with someone, and so you have a small margin of safety during this vulnerable phase. Remember that force you didn't disband? You're going to need them in case anyone starts knocking. Choose a religion: either be Christian or Pagan, I don't really care much but I personally hate those "Virtue of Poverty" traits that devoted Christian family members almost always get. Armies fielded by the Green WRE Rebels will contain many peasants, and provided you have sufficient skill, you can fend off every attack they send. Maintaining happiness in the cities you have left will also be your primary goal. Along with trade buildings, you should also get buildings that improve happiness. Considering how expensive all of this is, it will be a while before you get to a stable situation.

    In my campaign, I had to wait 20+ turns to get a constant income of 5,000 per turn. Only then did I send two 3-quarter stacks to recapture Mediolanium and Greece. I have two stacks of 10 briremes and 2 triremes each, and at least my part of the sea is secure. I'm only on this part of my campaign right now, Italy is happy and secure, and I'm only beginning to stretch my iron fist once more. This is version 1.6 at just M/M, and though I'm confident that I'll win, there will probably still be setbacks. When I finish this I'll try again at VH/VH



    "Why did we attack the Iceni? Why did we destroy that cargo? I can live with being a pawn if the game makes sense!" - Wingman, Mission 3: The Romans Blunder, Freespace 2

  26. #56
    Daimyo, Sultan & True Roman Member Crian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by masuro
    I tried it today and it won't work for me. I pulled out my troops, destroyed all the buildings, and let it revolt. A few of the cities become the Western Roman Rebels and the others just kill soldiers and citizens. They don't become regular rebel cities. And many of the Western Roman Rebel cities flip back to me. I can't give the cities away to anybody, not even allies. I am now about 50,000 in debt and can see no way out of it.
    Only saw this now after my earlier post...

    Try doing it at M/M first, that's what I did. Don't just pull out your troops, disband them. You won't need all of them at once anyway and they're expensive. Crank the tax rate to VERY HIGH in the cities you want to rebel, this gives you an immediate cash influx that you can use to set construction cues to the cities left to you. This also ensures that they WILL rebel. You will be forced to have only one defensive army probably in Italy because of your low income, and your skill in battle will be essential because it will be a while before you can send out grand legions in a mission to conquer the world. Your first turns will be defensive. Try getting a faction leader with better management skill (the guy on the island west of Rome is a good candidate). In case of a loyalist revolt, don't invest on it, chances are it will go rebel again anyway. Hope this helps.

    Oh and BTW, I don't think Roman cities in BI ever turn to normal rebels so that's one thing you have to contend with.



    "Why did we attack the Iceni? Why did we destroy that cargo? I can live with being a pawn if the game makes sense!" - Wingman, Mission 3: The Romans Blunder, Freespace 2

  27. #57

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    I've found an effective and cheap method of crushing the early revolt/s is to sepertate your empire into five areas: Italy, spain, france and Briton. Abandon the south eastern provinces (put the emperor there if you wish to revert to paganism: suicide mission). Then pull all good (Foederati Infantry and above) troops in each region to the command of it's most loyal general while disabanding all Foederati Cavalry. Wait for the 'hit' to occur and then move on the most prominant cities in each area. Once these are taken systematicly retake all cities in each province and exterminate/enslave the populace. This will make it easier to convert them to your chosen faith as a bonus as well as providing nice meaty injections of cash to your struggling economy this should help beat the empire into a shape in which it will be able to realisticly oppose the hordes. The fact that your army generals and legions will now be battle hardened halps as well.
    The north eastern provinces must be protected at all times The gaul army instead of being used to put down the revolt should be used to defend the borders. Have the spanish army move into Gaul once spain is consolidated and put down the uprisings with that. Always have a large army or crack troops in Nothern italy at all times. The barbarians will pour into nothern italy, my map is doted with major battle markers is a testement to this. After consolidation have a small siege army in every sub-section (3comitares, 2 archers and 2 siege engines) to put down any further revolts
    The south eastern provinces will fall. However if you let them revolt then that will mean that their will be a miltary presence in the area when the horde comes buying you time to beat your empire into shape.

    Quick tipes
    -obliterate the Burbers and saxons quickly, if you can't hold their cities simply obliterate the faction and then move on they won't horde so their demise will lighten the load for you without hording.
    -primary building targets are economic ones: Roads, harbors, trading posts


    from the writtings of Augustous Maximus-the butcherer of christians and small kittens.
    Roma locuta est. Causa finita est

  28. #58

    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithras
    I've found an effective and cheap method of crushing the early revolt/s is to sepertate your empire into five areas: Italy, spain, france and Briton.

    .

    Minor correction- the fith region is africa You, only really need to hold on to carthage as a waypoint for the latter african invasion for trade
    Roma locuta est. Causa finita est

  29. #59
    Daimyo, Sultan & True Roman Member Crian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    In general, when playing as the WRE the idea is to be able to get yourself out of your initially disastrous position while maintaining most (if not all) of your provinces. This in itself is quite a challenge and requires quite a bit of skill to pull off, even in M/M.

    I've decided to play differently though, and instead play pre-republican style: pulling back to Italy and expanding again once my position has stabilized (LestaT posted about a similar idea and I was encouraged more when I saw someone else talk about it ), essentially "rebuilding" the empire. I had an old M/M game playing this way and I was successful with it. I didn't finish it and decided to start a new one on VH/VH. I'm really enjoying this method right now and I'll post a more thorough guide about it in a couple of days once I've progressed significantly (with screenshots ).

    OK I know this is a worthless post but I'm so excited I had to put it in, please bear with me.... ... ...



    "Why did we attack the Iceni? Why did we destroy that cargo? I can live with being a pawn if the game makes sense!" - Wingman, Mission 3: The Romans Blunder, Freespace 2

  30. #60
    Daimyo, Sultan & True Roman Member Crian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Western Roman Empire (BI faction)

    It's been two weeks since my last post , and I was trying to do the earlier idea of disbanding everything outside of Italy and trying to conquer the world from there (like in the Republican campaign). I had moderate success with a M/M game but it wasn't the same in VH/VH.

    I played, overall 4 WRE campaigns on VH/VH and disbanded everything and tried to conquer from there. The first one I was sucessful, but it wasn't until 450 AD until I was able to conquer the cities NEAREST me. The second one was also successful, but it wasn't (again), until 450 AD when I began conquering. The next two I tried to be more aggressive, but I utterly failed. When hordes started knocking I was barely able to keep them out, and then another set of hordes started coming, it was crazy .

    I wanted to create a more comprehensive guide (I said I'd do it in a couple of days ), but until I get a satisfactory outcome I'll postpone it. Overall, this is NOT a recommended way to play. It is a huge chore to do and it's probably better to micromanage your way into keeping your empire intact from the beginning (unless you want things even harder). I'm starting my 5th game and hopefully I'll get it right . Cheers all!



    "Why did we attack the Iceni? Why did we destroy that cargo? I can live with being a pawn if the game makes sense!" - Wingman, Mission 3: The Romans Blunder, Freespace 2

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