Infantry in BI

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 16:31

I've been playing BI first with Sassanids and now I'm trying to play with Franks. I've noticed that spearunits seem to be much better in BI. They don't rout so easily and are capable of tearing light and medium horse units to pieces in longer melee.

Now I'm faced with the dilemma: Why should I train axe or swordsmen? They are worse against horses and when fighting against other infantry they have only 2/3 of the spearunit size. Spears can do shield wall just the same as axe or sword and gain one extra experience level compared to other types due to hall bonus. Addionally spearunits carry throwing spears, which is quite devastating when throw by 120 soldiers (large unit size). On top of that both Axe and Sword Heerbann are more expensive to maintain... Am I missing something? I also noticed that Fransisca Heerbann have Warcry ability instead of shield wall which makes it harder to incorporate in frankish battleline.

**Dutch_guy** · 10-10-2005, 16:37

well the spears may be cheaper and larger, but the swords and the axe men ,are way better, plus I think the axe men have an armor piercing ability - just like the spears have a ''spear'' attribute.
So I use swords and axe men , later francisca axe men to from my battle line , and use spears for support of some better quality garrisson.

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 16:40

No, Frankish axemen don't have armor piercing modifier and neither do fransisca men. Axe and sword are same besides sword has 3 more defense skill and 20 gold more maintenance...

**Dutch_guy** · 10-10-2005, 16:43

well still , I would choose the swords , the 20 gold more in upkeep is nothing , even in the beginning it isn't.
Plus if you need to assault walls , the low morale spears wouldn't do well , in my experience swords and axe's ( especially francisca's with their ranged attack ) do way better.

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 17:04

repost

**A.Saturnus** · 10-10-2005, 17:22

Originally Posted by Zorlag

Now you make a good point...

The stats for un-upgraded units is this:

Levy Spearmen: attack 7, charge bonus 4, missile 11
armour 2, skill 5, shield 3, (=defence 10)

Axe Heerbann: attack 9, charge bonus 5
armour 7, skill 4, shield 6 (=defence 17)

With an extra experience point, the spears are almost equal in attack, but 6 short in defence. For sword heerbann even 9. That makes a huge difference.

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 17:01

lag report

**A.Saturnus** · 10-10-2005, 17:03

The spearmen are good against light and medium cav and are almost good supporting units but against commitatenses or other tough inf, Heerbann are more usefull. Besides spearmen have only armor of 2 and small shields, so they are vulnerable to arrows.

**Dorkus** · 10-10-2005, 16:56

repost

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 16:59

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

well still , I would choose the swords , the 20 gold more in upkeep is nothing , even in the beginning it isn't.
Plus if you need to assault walls , the low morale spears wouldn't do well , in my experience swords and axe's ( especially francisca's with their ranged attack ) do way better.

Now you make a good point. Fighting in a place where you can't utilize your numerical superiority (walls or maybe streets) have some options to use these units. I'll drop down here stats of aforementioned infantry units when trained from large barbarian city with some upgrades:

Spear Levy:

Men in unit: 120

Melee: 10
Missile: 14
Charge: 4

Total Defense: 13
Armor: 2
Defense: 8
Shield: 3

Shield Wall
Combat Bonus in woods or snow
* Spears have bonus vs cavalry, I think it was +4 to attack?

Recruit Cost: 333 gold
Upkeep: 115 gold

Axe and Sword Heerbann (2 chevron)

Men in unit: 81

Melee:11
Missile: none
Charge: 5

Total Defense: 19 (sword 22)
Armor: 7
Defense: 6 (sword 9)
Shield: 6

Recruit Cost: 459 both
Upkeep Cost: 124 axe, 144 sword

Axe and sword guys can take some beating with their higher defense but get flanked more easily (which leads to morale penalties and backstab attacks).
So what should be done is that most of your infantry are spears, put 2-4 swords or fransisca on wings. That should be good for winning most field battles. I'd rather have 120 men sword and axe units with higher cost and upkeep, spears are just so tempting.

**Dorkus** · 10-10-2005, 16:55

Chosen axemen are the best infantry unit in the game. I believe they beat every unit in the game head to head (including bodyguard cav units, catas, etc), and they only cost 450 (with a ridiculously low 100 or so upkeep).

BI is still cav dominated, however. So imo all infantry units are a waste (you only need 1 unit to use a ladder and open up the gates for city assaults).