Loyalty etc

**BobTheTerrible** · 10-02-2005, 16:48

I have a few questions pertaining to loyalty- First off, I'm assuming the Romans are the only ones with the loyalty trait? Secondly, do the Eastern Roman Rebels and Western Roman Rebels count as factions for purposes of the faction limit? I'm assuming they do, but it would be nice if one could give every faction the loyalty trait and have a chance of civil war for all factions.

And one last miscellaneous question- At twc I think it was somebody mentioned something about having a new faction trait, called re_emergent or something. Is this just having the faction emerge like the Romano-British or is like having MTW style faction re-emergences after they've been wiped out?

**Dutch_guy** · 10-02-2005, 16:56

Yes only the Romans have the loyalty feature, at least I haven't seen any of my Celt leaders have it.

And yes the rebel Roman factions do count as stand alone factions.

As for your last question, I haven't -in my limited time playing that is -, seen a re-emergence, have seen a regular emergance ( those Romano British ) , who didn't really last long against my Celts

**Craterus** · 10-02-2005, 20:54

The Goths have loyalty too. If a general rebels, the Ostrogoths "emerge". It's all in the manual, you'd do well to read it

**[DnC]** · 10-02-2005, 21:04

Besides the Romans and Goths, I've also seen a Romano-Brittish factionleader with the loyalty bar.

**Craterus** · 10-02-2005, 21:10

Odd, in the manual it says it can only happen with those 3. Well, that's cool 'cos I'm annoyed that only a few factions can have civil wars.

**Azi Tohak** · 10-02-2005, 21:13

My top two generals (I am ERE) both have two rings' loyalty, however, I am keeping them with some other generals that have four or five ring loyalty. Do you suppose this will prevent revolts?

I did have one result, but I sacked Hatra, abandonded it, and then the ERE rebels appeared. With peasants. So I sent my eastern front-line army out there and crushed them quickly to keep them from spreading.

Azi

**Dutch_guy** · 10-02-2005, 21:44

Originally Posted by Craterus

Odd, in the manual it says it can only happen with those 3. Well, that's cool 'cos I'm annoyed that only a few factions can have civil wars.

Well I wouldn't call them civil wars, in my ERE when I got this so called Civil war only 1 province turned rebel (ERER ). I would have liked to seen (My)whole empire fall in half into a civil war, you know what you coul d get in MTW.

Still it's better than nothing, I can live with this

**Craterus** · 10-03-2005, 16:10

The idea is that another faction "appears" with these civil wars. Although, the ERER/WRER are there from the beginning?

**Bob the Insane** · 10-03-2005, 17:17

The rebel Roman factions are emergent factions (not there from the beginning) and like other emergent factions have triggers for the emergence. In this case it appear to be a revolt by a settlement in Roman lands. The Loyalty rating seems to determine whether the general govening the settlement actually joins the revolt or gets kicked out of the city. I guess having a general join the revolt must be another trigger for the emergence of the rebel faction as it can't really exist without a general... (I think, after all the rebel faction can exist without a general so I am not 100% sure)...

It really is not a civil war in the same sense as MTW as it does not appear that field armies will just up and join the new faction and you get no choice in whom to support...

The is no point in having a loyalty rating for any general in a faction which does not have a unique rebel faction of their own as the general will not have anyone to join and any city that joins will simply join the default rebel faction...

It is interesting to experiment with bribing in other faction's generals. I wonder if their loyaty is generated at that point or if they always have a loyalty rating and it is simply not displayed for the other factions...

**Dutch_guy** · 10-03-2005, 17:39

It is interesting to experiment with bribing in other faction's generals. I wonder if their loyaty is generated at that point or if they always have a loyalty rating and it is simply not displayed for the other factions...

Maybe if your playing as the Huns and you bribe a Roman low loyalty general the loyalty is replaced by a bad - unloyal vice ?

**Zatoichi** · 10-03-2005, 18:01

I had a new loyalty-themed event happen to me in my game yesterday - Playing as the the ERE I'd taken a province from the Sassanids, but it had issues with religion and loyalty. I don't remember the general's loyalty, but it was evidentally low enough for it to triger the ERE Rebels into action. So I lost the city and got a new faction to duff up - fine. However, the city in question is that one in the bottom right corner in the middle of the desert, a real pain to get to, and what with everything else going on in my empire, I decided to leave it be for a while until things settled down before exacting my revenge.

Anyway... the new thing that happened (other than the revolt, which was a first for me), was that about 10 turns later, I got notified that I'd gained a new recruit to the Eastern cause. There was no 'locator' icon on the message, so I didn't know what it meant. A scan of the map revealed I'd got a new general and army (4 limitari? with silver shield and weapons, gold XP), defected over from the Eastern rebels, halfway from that city to my nearest settlement. This wasn't the original general, but a totally new one.

So my point (yes, I have one) is that these rebel generals evidently have their own loyalty, and can switch back to you randomly - an undocumented feature (unless I skipped that bit in the manual), and a very good one in my opinion.

It has a sad ending, however, as I sent him back with a couple of extra units to take the rebel town, and he got slaughtered when they sallied - man those gold XP spawned units are tough!

**TinCow** · 10-03-2005, 18:20

If you want a real civil war, do what I did. Play as WRE and abandon a bunch of your cities to solve your tax problems. I did this and all of Iberia, Britain, Northern Gaul and Ionia joined the WRE Rebels along with two of my family members. Their armies are piss poor, but they're recovering from my raze and run tactic. I expect them to be around in Iberia for a long time to come, though their territories in Eastern Europe and Gaul are disappearing due to attacks by the Hordes. Interestingly, I recently had a town controlled by the Allemani revolt against them and join me. I got some very decent troops along with it and I've managed to keep control over it even though it doesn't share a border with the rest of my empire.

**Viking** · 10-03-2005, 21:09

Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

The rebel Roman factions are emergent factions (not there from the beginning) and like other emergent factions have triggers for the emergence. In this case it appear to be a revolt by a settlement in Roman lands. The Loyalty rating seems to determine whether the general govening the settlement actually joins the revolt or gets kicked out of the city. I guess having a general join the revolt must be another trigger for the emergence of the rebel faction as it can't really exist without a general... (I think, after all the rebel faction can exist without a general so I am not 100% sure)..

.

The Roman Rebels needs both family members and settlements. If it looses all settlements or family members it is destroyed. It`s a real faction like any other faction, except from that it got the trait 're-emergent' in descr_strat.

Originally Posted by Zatoichi

Anyway... the new thing that happened (other than the revolt, which was a first for me), was that about 10 turns later, I got notified that I'd gained a new recruit to the Eastern cause. There was no 'locator' icon on the message, so I didn't know what it meant. A scan of the map revealed I'd got a new general and army (4 limitari? with silver shield and weapons, gold XP), defected over from the Eastern rebels, halfway from that city to my nearest settlement. This wasn't the original general, but a totally new one.

So my point (yes, I have one) is that these rebel generals evidently have their own loyalty, and can switch back to you randomly - an undocumented feature (unless I skipped that bit in the manual), and a very good one in my opinion.

I once had a 4-ring loyal WRER general joining my faction(WRE).

Unsure whether this was the same turn, even a captain 'converted to my cause'. It appears to me WRER generals simply love rebel back to me with crappy loyalty traits so I have to keep them away from my armies.