Vienna's Grudge: Should Turkey join the EU ?

[Sjakihata]

I'll have to laugh. To say Turkey isnt culturally part of Europa is wrong. I mean, if we trace back European culture, when end somewhere around the ancient greeks - I wonder where Turkey is in that context?

oh, and btw, talking geography - how can Turkey (and Greece) for that matter be members of North Atlantic Treaty Organization? You'll have to look at the politics back then, to block the russians from harbour opportunities. To admit Turkey into EU would prevent further spreading of terror - it seems somewhat analogous to me, and it was done before, so it can be done again :)

[Byzantine Prince]

Turkey is an ex-nomad, arabic, northern Iraqi(turkman), culture. Laugh all you want, that doesn't make you right. The only European thing about it is the ultra-nationalist sentiment it has acquired in the last century.


EDIT: Because the Mediterranean is considered to be part of the north atlantic.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

King Malcolm:
I am no longer staying in the U.K. but I did cast a postal vote against a sitting member of the LibDems. Sadly he got re-elected. I have no time for him.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I'll have to laugh. To say Turkey isnt culturally part of Europa is wrong. I mean, if we trace back European culture, when end somewhere around the ancient greeks - I wonder where Turkey is in that context?

oh, and btw, talking geography - how can Turkey (and Greece) for that matter be members of North Atlantic Treaty Organization? You'll have to look at the politics back then, to block the russians from harbour opportunities. To admit Turkey into EU would prevent further spreading of terror - it seems somewhat analogous to me, and it was done before, so it can be done again :)

Modern Turkey is populated by Slejuk and Ottoman turks, which massacred the Greek populations, along with all the Christians and Jews.

[Sjakihata]

Turkey is an ex-nomad, arabic, northern Iraqi(turkman), culture. Laugh all you want, that doesn't make you right. The only European thing about it is the ultra-nationalist sentiment it has acquired in the last century.

And it wasnt influenced a bit by the Byzantine Empire? Come on - you're a greek, you have to bash turkey, be objective.

[BDC]

King Malcolm:
I am no longer staying in the U.K. but I did cast a postal vote against a sitting member of the LibDems. Sadly he got re-elected. I have no time for him.

It could be worse. Our corrupt Labour MP was replaced with an inconsistant (possibly liar... who knows, she could be stupid or really smart), Greenpeace-loving, tv-hating Welsh Tory.

So that's progress.

[LeftEyeNine]

Modern Turkey is populated by Slejuk and Ottoman turks, which massacred the Greek populations, along with all the Christians and Jews.

You know, that was some kinda war wasn't it ? I sense another genocide blame here, apologies if I'm wrong.

BP ,

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

a Greenpeace loving Tory?

I live and learn.

does she hate tvs because they are televisions or because they are transvestites?

And to keep this relevant....didn't Turkey apply to join a trading block? If so, does it not make sense for those people who say no to a full membership to be considered in the right: Turkey had not initially applied to the weird E.U. beast that is being built so why claim that is the only way they can join?

[Meneldil]

LEN, the guys we're speaking about are I think called Loups Gris in french (= Grey Wolves)

Geography doesn't matter, what matters is history, populations, and culture

Hence why Turkey deserves a membership.

[Sjakihata]

didn't Turkey apply to join a trading block? If so, does it not make sense for those people who say no to a full membership to be considered in the right: Turkey had not initially applied to the weird E.U. beast that is being built so why claim that is the only way they can join?

simply because turkey government announced that if the negoations wasnt about full membership, they wouldnt show up.

What they want is full membership - that's why it's being discussed.

[LeftEyeNine]

LEN, the guys we're speaking about are I think called Loups Gris in french (= Grey Wolves)

Sorry that may sound funny but does this expression has anything related with Jean-Paul Grange's L'empire des Loups book ?

"Ulkuculer" are how they are called here, and considering the fact that they are originated from Turkey, "Ulkucu" would be a more accurate word to define them.. Not much important though..

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

just because Erdogan et all want full membership does not mean that it has to be the only option discussed.

[Lazul]

well, not that I give a shit about the geographic thing but Turkey is undemocratic, torture people, and dont admit they have treated armenians and kurds... well, in a very in-humain way.

... but then again i hate the EU

[Meneldil]

Sorry that may sound funny but does this expression has anything related with Jean-Paul Grange's L'empire des Loups book ?

"Ulkuculer" are how they are called here, and considering the fact that they are originated from Turkey, "Ulkucu" would be a more accurate word to define them.. Not much important though..

Well, that's how they're called in JP Grange's book, but that's also how they're called on french TV. Now, I would not be surprised if some french channels' best source was L'Empire des Loups

[Kaiser of Arabia]

You know, that was some kinda war wasn't it ? I sense another genocide blame here, apologies if I'm wrong.

BP ,

Nah, you killed em All in the past though.

[L'Impresario]

"Ulkuculer" are how they are called here, and considering the fact that they are originated from Turkey, "Ulkucu" would be a more accurate word to define them.. Not much important though..

Hmm, no I wouldn't say it 'd be more right terming them this way, as they are an actual and specific group, not a general term for extreme nationalists.
Maybe this site will help some people make certain connections heh
http://www.mhp.org.tr/

Also if you google the grey wolves and a word like "paramilitary";)
here's the first site that pops up:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story33.html

[Dâriûsh]

Ethnically, they're not European, Culuturally they're not European...

So what is a European ethnicity?

And culture for that matter?

[LeftEyeNine]

well, not that I give a shit about the geographic thing but Turkey is undemocratic, torture people, and dont admit they have treated armenians and kurds... well, in a very in-humain way.

Lazul, you get the right point. We are all eating human flesh over here. Especially if you are an Armenian Christian, we'll rip you into pieces in minutes. You stand no chance..

Ok, the next program about Turkey 24/7 is a fatality show named "Midnight Express Rails Embedded Under Your House, You Dirty Jew".. Happy fairy-taling..

Nah, you killed em All in the past though.

Million souls of killed Jews would be enough to push Germany out of the union then ? Yes, that was past though. Forget it..

Hmm, no I wouldn't say it 'd be more right terming them this way, as they are an actual and specific group, not a general term for extreme nationalists.
Maybe this site will help some people make certain connections heh
http://www.mhp.org.tr/

Also if you google the grey wolves and a word like "paramilitary";)
here's the first site that pops up:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story33.html

Yes, MHP is the legal political fraction that represent them. So Grey Wolves is the term used for them abroad. I see..

[Byzantine Prince]

Million souls of killed Jews would be enough to push Germany out of the union then ? Yes, that was past though. Forget it..

You have not been penalized for that crime. That's the difference.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

LEN,
it's also been proven that Europeans tend to prefer Armenian Christians to European Jews.

Actually that was a joke in very bad taste so I'm going to not put a smiley with it.

[PanzerJaeger]

Under which definition is Turkey part of Europe?

[Sjakihata]

under every possible definition, geographical, cultural, political, economical, etc

[Strike For The South]

Turkey is not europe culturlely or geographicly they are a stepping stone for terrorists there economy isnt the best but the EU is an immoral commie organzation trying to squeeze the last hope for a good moral America so join it just might give us enough time to unleash the master plan

[AntiochusIII]

I wouldn't really have an opinion around (who am I? Turkish? No. Citizen of an EU member? No. So why the hell am I interfering?) but I really see racist comments flying around in this thread. I can't believe there's still much anti-Turkish sentiment around, though it looks as if that's the works of the politicians seeking to divert the attention of the masses...hmm...

I inquire that some of you should reflect on your own "justifications" in this thread to see if you're just being a hypocrite, or a racist, for that matter.

Edit: Strange that American Unilateralism (okay, NATIONALISM! To be honest...) finds its way into a Turkey-EU thread.

[Sjakihata]

he EU is an immoral commie organzation

if euro union is communist to you, what then, is america?

[Strike For The South]

if euro union is communist to you, what then, is america?

The last hope for morality my friend

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Million souls of killed Jews would be enough to push Germany out of the union then ? Yes, that was past though. Forget it..

Germans are still ethnically european. Plus, you can make the same argument you did.

"Wasn't that some kind of war? I mean, we didn't just go murder the Russian and Polish jews, we were at war!"

"Wasn't that some kind of war? I mean, we didn't just go murder the Greek and Armenian Christians, we were at war!"

See a differance? Neither do I. Oh, and may I add that Germany now has one of the largest Jewish populations in Europe (I know, I can't figure it out either, esp. when Poland has like, the lowest.) I don't see too many Greeks in Turkey, do you?

Also, BP beat me to it, thanks mate .

Under the same justifications that would allow Israel or Egypt into the European Union, or even the US, Canada, or Mexico. It's preposturous.

As I said, I have nothing against Turks, I like Turks. But they aren't European.

[Sjakihata]

The last hope for morality my friend

and what's morality?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

and what's morality?

Somthing you don't have.

[LeftEyeNine]

You have not been penalized for that crime. That's the difference.

Admiral Bristol and Ismet Inonu had some very frequent series of telegrams just after the foundation of Turkish republic. The relations between USA and Turkey were getting stiffer because of some issues. One of them was the arrest of an American guy called Adamapoulos and the shutdown of an American college without giving the opportunity to the guy and the administrators of the college to prepare a defense.

Bristol said that it was a fundamental of democracy to give the accused chance of defense. No matter whether the guy or the college administration were absolutely guilty, they should have been allowed to defend.

Look at the Armenian Issue and the capricious mentality we are facing right now.

Turkey is being insisted to accept Armenian Issue in a way to compensate an imaginary genocide. I guess you may remember some numbers from my topic about Armenian Issue.

Whatever you present or prove , some people believe what they want to. And BP, you have a veteran place among them.. You get me once more again