What is Morality

[Soulforged]

In wich part...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Robert Heinlein once wrote that for something to be "moral" it had to promote survival of the individual and/or species.

Seamus

[Soulforged]

Robert Heinlein once wrote that for something to be "moral" it had to promote survival of the individual and/or species.

What I remember of Kant said that the moral is different from the law. He defined morals as the rules that reing over the individual, and the law those who rule over the relationships of the individual. He had also some obsolete ideas of society.
In any case I disagree with Robert Heinlein. The human sees many things as being good or bad, without having any material substantial reference to look at. The fact that for so many time (and even now) some people banned sexual liberation, is enough proof to refute Mr. Heinlein statement, and of course the irony is that without sex we couldn't reproduce...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What I remember of Kant said that the moral is different from the law. He defined morals as the rules that reing over the individual, and the law those who rule over the relationships of the individual. He had also some obsolete ideas of society.
In any case I disagree with Robert Heinlein. The human sees many things as being good or bad, without having any material substantial reference to look at. The fact that for so many time (and even now) some people banned sexual liberation, is enough proof to refute Mr. Heinlein statement, and of course the irony is that without sex we couldn't reproduce...

Heinlein would argue that such strictures may have, at one time, been necessary in order to produce a stable environment for child-rearing and societal improvements (survival on the larger level). He would also agree that it will have become immoral if survival no longer requires such restrictions on sexual liberation.

And yes, this was the argument he advanced in Starship Troopers. A fun read, and only tangentially linked to the film of the same name.

Seamus

[Strike For The South]

And yes, this was the argument he advanced in Starship Troopers. A fun read, and only tangentially linked to the film of the same name.
Seamus

The film was much deeper

[Soulforged]

Heinlein would argue that such strictures may have, at one time, been necessary in order to produce a stable environment for child-rearing and societal improvements (survival on the larger level). He would also agree that it will have become immoral if survival no longer requires such restrictions on sexual liberation.

However, even with your correction, this doesn't refute my statement. You're banning the same idea of sex, society in large is doing it, and this moral is the very counter part of all survival. As banning gay "marriage" (i would call it union, because marriage comes from "mater", wich means "mather") is the very counter point of evolution, and thus the suvival of society. For so many times the chirstian had taken it all wrong: the morals should (because it's axiological, because it comes from it's very essence) be the rules of the individual, the relationship of he with himself, thus the moral can have infinite connotations, even going beyond rationality (like ritual death, seppuku), it doesn't has to have any drop of survival idea. So my point is that what this Mr. is proposing is unbearable, because if you're arguing that it's well to just ban something for the sake of the rest of society, because of some ideal or eventual instability, then the state (or society in any case) will have so much power that in the name of safety, stability or whatever reason that they think appeals to survival (in it's ample sense as you took it), then they'll be able to involve in your personal affairs, saying what you can and you cannot do with yourself, or even with others, because we must understand that the meaning of privacy so respected in the Constitution (brought from the very inmemorial past to our Constitutions) also includes all relationships that doesn't directly damages others rights.

[Strike For The South]

Sounds like something out of Starship Troopers.

wait you dont base your morals and ethics off of Starship troopers

[Byzantine Prince]

I don't know.

[Quietus]

Robert Heinlein once wrote that for something to be "moral" it had to promote survival of the individual and/or species.

Seamus

Exactly. Everything else is an illusion anyway.