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Thread: Diplomacy

  1. #1
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Diplomacy

    Topic for discussion - are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?

    Might be an easy answer, but I suggest one looks at definitions of Informal diplomacy and Public diplomacy first. Seems they've got everything covered these days with their new terms.

    Anything can be brought into play. Historical examples are also very welcome.

  2. #2
    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Espionage is an aspect, I'd say. I think I might be misunderstanding your question, though.

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    I love diplomacy. My dad wants to make me an ambasador or a diplomat of some sort.

    Spying doesn't count as diplomacy.
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Well, he asked for aspects of foriegn relations which is why I was confused.

    He didn't say, 'Are there other types of diplomacy other than diplomacy?'

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    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    The commercial "alliances" don't count as diplomacy.

    Just an example.
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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Okay, it is thursday, so it's very possible my brain has melted.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia
    Topic for discussion - are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?
    Have I completely lost my mind, or is BKB asking for what is not diplomacy or war, but is an aspect of foreign relations?

    Sheesh.

  7. #7
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    Have I completely lost my mind, or is BKB asking for what is not diplomacy or war, but is an aspect of foreign relations?
    Yes, he is. In which case I would answer: Dating.

    Seamus
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  8. #8
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Well, yeah. To be honest its not actually my question - my brother's dealing with Byzantine diplomacy at Uni at the minute and that's the question he's been given. I don't think it has to relate to Byzantium, just any kinds of foreign relations. Its pretty tough I know, but blame the lecturer if he's melted your brain!

  9. #9
    Probably Drunk Member Reverend Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Soooo... fruit smuggling?

    No, there's diplomacy in that too.

  10. #10
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Yes, he is. In which case I would answer: Dating.

    Seamus
    I would have agreed, but I saw a sentence on Wikipedia (disputable I know) in the 'Public Diplomacy' article that frankly stunned me:

    Indirect public diplomacy includes the everyday activities of citizens internationally, such as everyday cultural activities and products such as films, tourism, theatre, and internet discussion.
    LINK

    So, according to this, us lot are engaging in a bit of 'loose' diplomacy right now!

  11. #11
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Multinational companies?
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    War is a continuation of diplomacy by other means. - Clausewitz

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  13. #13
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    "Are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?" -The Blind King of Bohemia
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

  14. #14
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    If diplomacy is the relationship between countries then every interaction between the state and the people of the countries is diplomacy.

    Rude tourists can really colour the peoples view of a country disproportionally compared with virtually any other benign action.
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    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
    Multinational companies?
    That is kind of what I was thinking. They work within the already established trade laws and such but are separate from any real diplomatic negotiations.

    edit:I suppose any criminal activities would also be outside any official diplomatic activities.
    Last edited by yesdachi; 10-06-2005 at 21:54.
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    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
    "Are there any aspects of foreign relations which don't count as diplomacy, bar war?" -The Blind King of Bohemia
    Which is what I was referring to. War is diplomacy, carried out by unconventional ways.

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

  17. #17
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    But wasn't BKB asking for foreign relations that aren't considered diplomacy? Or are you correcting the implication from BKB's post that war isn't a form of diplomacy? Just curious as to what you mean exactly.
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

  18. #18
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Yes I think he was correcting it. I wasn't sure myself, I was going to put perhaps war. Judging by people's responses, seems like almost every kind of interaction is diplomatic these days.
    Last edited by The Blind King of Bohemia; 10-06-2005 at 23:28.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Diplomacy

    To me diplomacy is a peacful solution amongs countries, that's why I don't see war as diplomacy.
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    Member Member Productivity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Economic restrictions?

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    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjakihata
    To me diplomacy is a peacful solution amongs countries, that's why I don't see war as diplomacy.
    Well it's simply because war isn't diplomacy, but the absolute contrary. Though diplomacy can have bad effects, as bad as war...
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    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    I think war is a form of diplomacy, if diplomacy is trying to get other countries to help you achieve your goals/follow you/do something for you then war is trying to make them do something, whether it be surrender, open up a strait, remove their soldiers from your land. It is the most extreme form of persuasion, but like sanctions and such still follows the basic premise of diplomacy, which i think of as coaxing (and sometimes coercing) a country to do something, whether it is specific or broad.
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    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Diplomacy are just relations themselves, thus war can be part of it. Or at least that is the argument von C. makes.
    But one has to understand the time he lived in. Back then limited wars were very much a normal thing. For instance the English and Dutch wnet to war over the Dutch not wanting to salute the English first in the Channel (an old right).

    Today wars are more or less total. Submit unconditionally. Most countries for some odd reason don't like that very much. Thus the modern war is different not only in the military aspects but also in the diplomatic one.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  24. #24
    Member Member bmolsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Trade.... Its older than diplomacy.

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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Well, if posting on an international forum is diplomacy, I'm gonna try to collect from the State Department - I'm overdue.

  26. #26
    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraxis
    Diplomacy are just relations themselves, thus war can be part of it. Or at least that is the argument von C. makes.
    But one has to understand the time he lived in. Back then limited wars were very much a normal thing. For instance the English and Dutch wnet to war over the Dutch not wanting to salute the English first in the Channel (an old right).
    Incorrect. Diplomacy is only oriented towards peaceful relationships, there could be cohersion, but war is the eternal foe of diplomacy, the one that enters the scene when all forms of diplomacy have failed.
    Today wars are more or less total. Submit unconditionally. Most countries for some odd reason don't like that very much. Thus the modern war is different not only in the military aspects but also in the diplomatic one.
    Here you've to separate the two moments. One being the war itself wich is not diplomacy, and then later take the situation as a momentum of cohersion when the winner can take advantadge of it and force certain agendas through relationships.
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  27. #27
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    You do know that there is a diplomatic stance that says: At War
    Meaning the war is included in the diplomatic system. And war does not preclude diplomacy in quite the majority of wars.
    And diplomacy isn't eaxactly peaceful always. A trade embargo is hardly peaceful, and an embargo to get some piece of land of the other is especially not peaceful.
    So war and diplomacy are not only linked they overlap.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  28. #28
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy

    War is included in diplomacy, but war is diplomacy by unconventional means...
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

    Proud

    Been to:

    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

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