broken pikes

[Krusader]

I'd say they should take advantage of the sluggishness of the phalanx and stop in front and pelt them with javelins. When they are forced to charge, the cavalry can come in and break the lines of the phalanx even more. When they are broken like that, they may have more equal terms.

Maybe stupid for Darius's army at Gaugamela considering it was made up of farmers who had trouble using a sword let alone throwin a javelin. In other cases though this tactic could have worked wonders.

Iphikrates did that minus the cavalry in the Corinthian War. He almost wiped out a Spartan hoplite battalion (600 men) with peltasts alone. Those few who escaped the peltasts were killed by Athenian hoplites I think.
Will come back when I find which battle and sources.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I know my history, but I need to get like this guy! ^^

[Reenk Roink]

Yep, this is the incredible amount of knowledgeable knowledge that defines EB

[Sarcasm]

Iphikrates did that minus the cavalry in the Corinthian War. He almost wiped out a Spartan hoplite battalion (600 men) with peltasts alone. Those few who escaped the peltasts were killed by Athenian hoplites I think.
Will come back when I find which battle and sources.

The battle/skirmish was near Korinthos in 390...I believe the proper name of the battle is Lechaion. He basically destroyed an unsupported Spartan hoplite mora with rearmed hoplites, which by that time had gotten considerably lighter.

There is also an ocasion where Spartan hoplites surrendered after being hit by Athenian archers for a couple of days.

And infierno, that's all fantasy...there are other more practical ways of defeating a heavy-phalanx army than going Ewok on them. AS you can see, archers and javelineers do just fine, simply by being able to outrun and outrange them.

EDIT: CBR: Double handers were used by Swiss mercenaries since the 14th century and although outlawed in some cantons, they were still exported to other countries who used them well into the 16th century. Two centuries is not a small time to use such a speacialized weapon.

[CBR]

Well I was referring more to the fact that two handed swords werent used for long in the Renaissance as pikes became the dominant weapon. The earlier use of such weapons cant have been against pikes as pikes were either not used or only in few numbers.


CBR

[CBR]

Xenophon, Hellenica 4.4.11-17 about Lechaeum: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...out=&loc=4.4.1


CBR

[Sarcasm]

Well I was referring more to the fact that two handed swords werent used for long in the Renaissance as pikes became the dominant weapon. The earlier use of such weapons cant have been against pikes as pikes were either not used or only in few numbers.


CBR

Halberds were used before pikes...the greatswords theoretically also had the job to cut the heads off those. In any time though, they were mostly standart protectors and elite shock troops; They were the biggest, bravest and often the most flamboyant troops in those armies and generally enjoyed double pay.

In India, Portuguese nobles liked to use this sword to hack through decks full of Indian, Malaysian and Turk troops.

[Teutobod II]

Well I was referring more to the fact that two handed swords werent used for long in the Renaissance as pikes became the dominant weapon. The earlier use of such weapons cant have been against pikes as pikes were either not used or only in few numbers.
CBR

more commonly the Katzenbälger were used, short swords without a sheath but stuck in a cat´s skin (thats why the name)
Renaissance regiments at times were stacked up to 20 rows deep - no room to swing a 2H-sword there

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Im not sure whether the macidonians did this but i know that some medieval british halbierds had a metal bar running down the stave to prevent the end being cut off.
In the case of a pike, they can still act as a serious impediment even without a spearpoint, (scareing horses and the like).

[Sarcasm]

more commonly the Katzenbälger were used, short swords without a sheath but stuck in a cat´s skin (thats why the name)
Renaissance regiments at times were stacked up to 20 rows deep - no room to swing a 2H-sword there

You don't need to swing a two-hander...they have a long ricasso that allows you to use it as a small spear of sorts, but obviously they were more usefull when used in front of their own line and then retiring again.

BTW, the bar that prevented the halberd from being cut, does not go all the way down, even if it did, metal brakes as well...or if it doesn't, the wood behind it does by the sheer power of the blow, in which case you get a very damaged and unwieldy weapon.

[CBR]

At Pydna it doesnt seem like the Romans had succes cutting pikeheads off. Its not easy to do without using a heavy weapon like the two handed swords used in early Renaissance (and IIRC wasnt used for long) or some kind of polearm to pin down the pike and break it.


CBR

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I know my history, but I need to get like this guy! ^^

Yep, this is the incredible amount of knowledgeable knowledge that defines EB

Hum, so many knowledgable people here. Enjoy yourselves a bit:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sar...hikrates1.html

[Reenk Roink]

Knowledgeable on YOUR team of course

[Fenrhyl]

scot highlanders, from what i read about them, used to carry round shields and swords in order to have the pikes of english pikemen stuck into their shields in order to cut them easily. I don't know what this is worth in face of recent discoveries and reconstitutions.

Did any kind of troop try to do the same when facing phalanxes ?

[Urnamma]

Hum, so many knowledgable people here. Enjoy yourselves a bit:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sar...hikrates1.html

Gah, Aymar. That article is half bullshit. Don't post stuff like that.

[Urnamma]

I'd like to note that walking or running up to a line of pointy sticks and trying tp break one will probably get you stabbed by another 5. Also, if you cut the head of a pike off, they still have a 20 foot sharp pole to jab you with.

According to most military historians, the tactic of actually cutting pike heads off DID NOT WORK.

[Sarcasm]

That's our opinion too.

Not that it matters or anything...

[jerby]

I'd like to note that walking or running up to a line of pointy sticks and trying tp break one will probably get you stabbed by another 5. Also, if you cut the head of a pike off, they still have a 20 foot sharp pole to jab you with.

According to most military historians, the tactic of actually cutting pike heads off DID NOT WORK.

well, i gues trying to stop itself is pretty much impossible..since there's a large number of men behind you trying to get to the fight..you'll get impaled on teh pikes merely by the push of your own men..