Colombus Day

**Uesugi Kenshin** · 10-07-2005, 01:47

Well what do you think of it?

I recently wrote a piece on Colombus Day for my school paper, it will be in Wednesday or Thursday's edition, I really don't see why the US celebrates him. It seems like he did a whole lot more harm than good. For one he treated the natives very brutally, even against the orders of the Spanish crown, he was a glory hound and even stole the glory of first seeing land from one of his own men, he was fairly inept when it came to predicting the Ocean's size and that of the Earth, and I'm sure there are many other things, but I think that's enough to start.

**Kaiser of Arabia** · 10-07-2005, 02:06

Cristiforo Columbo is an Italian Hero, and I am sick and tired of all the slander spread against him by the radical left.

He's more of a hero than Martin Luther King and whoever the hell else these AA rascists want days after, because without him, I doubt MLK would have even BEEN IN AMERICA.

Treated Natives badly...blegh...and which nations didn't? You think the natives were nice to Columbus and his crew? Were they ever?

He may have made mistakes, but to call him a villain is just plain slander. What about all the bad things MLK and Malcom X did? And what's up with all these bloody herataige months while the Italians can't even get ONE $&#^$%#$^%&#^%$^#$^%$(*@(@*&@&*&&$#^@&*#& DAY?

I can go on, but that's enough for a start.

**Redleg** · 10-07-2005, 02:10

Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

Well what do you think of it?

I recently wrote a piece on Colombus Day for my school paper, it will be in Wednesday or Thursday's edition, I really don't see why the US celebrates him. It seems like he did a whole lot more harm than good. For one he treated the natives very brutally, even against the orders of the Spanish crown, he was a glory hound and even stole the glory of first seeing land from one of his own men, he was fairly inept when it came to predicting the Ocean's size and that of the Earth, and I'm sure there are many other things, but I think that's enough to start.

Oh boy someone likes to stir the pot now don't they.

**discovery1** · 10-07-2005, 02:15

Kaiser, I'm pretty sure that even if Columbus wasn't given money for his voyage, some other explorer would con a monarch into supporting them. Wasn't there some English explorer at about the same time? http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/cabot.html

In England, Cabot received the backing he had been refused in Spain and Portugal. First, the merchants of Bristol agreed to support his scheme. They had sponsored probes into the north Atlantic from the early 1480s, looking for possible trading opportunities. Some historians think that Bristol mariners might even have reached Newfoundland and Labrador even before Cabot arrived on the scene.

**Kaiser of Arabia** · 10-07-2005, 02:27

Originally Posted by discovery1

Kaiser, I'm pretty sure that even if Columbus wasn't given money for his voyage, some other explorer would con a monarch into supporting them. Wasn't there some English explorer at about the same time? http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/cabot.html

Cabot was born in Genoa. Another great Italian.

**Uesugi Kenshin** · 10-07-2005, 02:34

Just something for you to note Kaiser: he enslaved 1600 natives in direct violation of orders from the Spanish monarchs, and then sent them 550. They sent them back and punished him for it. Who knows what would have happened if he didn't start that trend? Though I agree it is likely that they would have been abused anyway it does not make that sort of behaviour permissible IMHO.

**Kaiser of Arabia** · 10-07-2005, 02:37

Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

Just something for you to note Kaiser: he enslaved 1600 natives in direct violation of orders from the Spanish monarchs, and then sent them 550. They sent them back and punished him for it. Who knows what would have happened if he didn't start that trend? Though I agree it is likely that they would have been abused anyway it does not make that sort of behaviour permissible IMHO.

The Turks started the slave trade way before Columbus. Just by finding America, it would have been extended and the natives enslaved.

**Tachikaze** · 10-07-2005, 02:37

He was a profiteer looking for wealth. His voyage was uncertain and dangerous, but so were so many others that we rarely mention today. His trip was actually not as long or as dangerous as many others, including the earliest voyages around Africa and, of course, the circumnavigation of the world, both about the same time.

It sucks that we have made a hero out of a man with so few virtues, and a long list of vices. The results of his findings led to mass deaths in the Americas. Even if the great majority were not done by his hand, it's nothing to celebrate.

There have been so many wonderful people who have given the world so much and asked for so little in return. It's a crime they go unsung while Columbus is honored.

The remark about MLK and where he would have been born is ludicrous. Columbus never stepped foot in the US.

**Kaiser of Arabia** · 10-07-2005, 02:44

Originally Posted by Tachikaze

He was a profiteer looking for wealth. His voyage was uncertain and dangerous, but so were so many others that we rarely mention today. His trip was actually not as long or as dangerous as many others, including the earliest voyages around Africa and, of course, the circumnavigation of the world, both about the same time.

It sucks that we have made a hero out of a man with so few virtues, and a long list of vices. The results of his findings led to mass deaths in the Americas. Even if the great majority were not done by his hand, it's nothing to celebrate.

There have been so many wonderful people who have given the world so much and asked for so little in return. It's a crime they go unsung while Columbus is honored.

The remark about MLK and where he would have been born is ludicrous. Columbus never stepped foot in the US.

Well, without slavery, they'd still be in the dark ages in Africa, dying at age 30 of a cold. No offense to them, but it's still going on in some parts of Africa. So I doubt much would have changed. Despite all the bad things, in the end, slavery contributed Postitivly, mainly by (by ending it, at least) we gained many African-American writers, poets, and musicians into American society that wouldnt have been here if it wasnt for slavery in the 16 and 1700s

**AntiochusIII** · 10-07-2005, 02:48

That's another misconception, Kaiser. Africa was depopulated and de-civilized because of slavery. The cultures were developing themselves, as well, and they stood better chance of evolving than the Mesoamerican cultures, thanks to them being in the larger part of the world's continents. The institution of slavery in such massive sizes led to increased violence among Africans. Cities, towns, and villages emptied of population; older, inner continent kingdoms fell to be replaced by coastal slave-trading kingdoms, who were reliant on Europeans to survival, and were more barbaric in terms of the scale of violence they committed.

**Goofball** · 10-07-2005, 20:53

Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Well, without slavery, they'd still be in the dark ages in Africa, dying at age 30 of a cold.

With all due respect Kaiser, I suggest you take some courses in how not to say the most offensive, stupid, thoughtless possible things nearly every time you open your mouth.

Perhaps they offer them at you local community college.

Give them a call, please...

**solypsist** · 10-07-2005, 03:15

unfortunately efforts between Native Americans and Italian-Americans to compromise and just have an Italian pride day or something haven't materialized. I can see both sides of the issue, and they're both strong for very different reasons.

**Soulforged** · 10-07-2005, 06:48

Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

Well what do you think of it?

I recently wrote a piece on Colombus Day for my school paper, it will be in Wednesday or Thursday's edition, I really don't see why the US celebrates him. It seems like he did a whole lot more harm than good. For one he treated the natives very brutally, even against the orders of the Spanish crown, he was a glory hound and even stole the glory of first seeing land from one of his own men, he was fairly inept when it came to predicting the Ocean's size and that of the Earth, and I'm sure there are many other things, but I think that's enough to start.

At least here we don't celebrate the figure of Colon (Columbus) itself, but the apparition of the new world before the "eyes" of the old one, thus the races united (in a very ample sense of the word

). So I don't see the whole problem here. Besides many "heros" of history were far more brutal...
Another thing, Columbus is Spanish, at least for a recent study, probably born in the zone of Catalunia.
The message of the success was forgotten by somebody here sadly...

**Crazed Rabbit** · 10-07-2005, 07:12

over-the-top falseties

Ever heard of affirmative action? Minorities (not including Asians) getting points on university applications for skin color?

Crazed Rabbit

**thrashaholic** · 10-07-2005, 08:18

Just to be interesting: it was recently discovered that the first Europeans (and possibly first people) to step foot on America were a neolithic tribe from South-West France who sailed there during the ice age.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...columbus.shtml

**Kanamori** · 10-07-2005, 15:17

Ever heard of affirmative action? Minorities (not including Asians) getting points on university applications for skin color?

The huge majority of people that go to college are white. What is wrong with trying to help minority families out by giving them the chance at a good education that they otherwise would not get because of socio-economic conditions?