Colombus Day

[Kaiser of Arabia]

That's another misconception, Kaiser. Africa was depopulated and de-civilized because of slavery. The cultures were developing themselves, as well, and they stood better chance of evolving than the Mesoamerican cultures, thanks to them being in the larger part of the world's continents. The institution of slavery in such massive sizes led to increased violence among Africans. Cities, towns, and villages emptied of population; older, inner continent kingdoms fell to be replaced by coastal slave-trading kingdoms, who were reliant on Europeans to survival, and were more barbaric in terms of the scale of violence they committed.

The only real Kingdom I could think of that showed promise was Zimbabwe, in Africa. I'm probably wrong.

Either way, Columbus was a hero!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I don't think Columbus was evil per se, but he certainly wasn't a great guy and definately did a lot of horrible things.

How do we know that without Columbus we would not be better off? Capo you are making a lot of assumptions, such as that we wouldn't have a lot of African American writers and such, but how do we know that there wouldn't be a wave of more peaceful immigration, or another source for cultural diversity without Columbus? I think that is looking a bit too far ahead of the events, I think we should judge him based on what he did and the immediate consequences.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Columbus was an ass.

So was MLK, in my opinion. You're point?

The thing is, ITALIAN AMERICANS DONT HAVE TOO MANY HEROS! So we tend to be very defensive. So that's why I'm definding Columbus wholeheartedly.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

MLK? An ass? MLK was a great man who did great things. It's the greedy ingrates who spearheaded Afirmative Action and bastardized his dream of equality that are the asses.

The fact that he created such a dream led them to bastardize it. If he hadn't created the dream, they wouldnt have bastardized it. Simple really.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Oh come on Kaiser. That's like saying that the Crusades are Jesus' fault for Him dying on the Cross.

Funny how in editing this I realized I called you "Capo". Old habits never die.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Capo that is a totally unreasonable point, by that logic nobody should have dreams because somebody could come along and totally futz it up after you die.

Well you could have a holiday for Italian-American policemen that fought the mafia back when it was really big. From what I remember they tended to be some of the best as they were very dedicated and were the best for infiltrating the organization. Why do you need an Italian-American hero? Sorry if I'm being insensitive, but I don't get it at the moment, please explain.

[Strike For The South]

The mans from Genoa my pops is from Genoa end of story

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The fact that he created such a dream led them to bastardize it. If he hadn't created the dream, they wouldnt have bastardized it. Simple really.

Kaiser:

I'm KofC, so I honor Columbus even though I am aware of his faults. He was a man, niether good nor evil and certainly not perfect, who changed history. He should be remembered.

If you seriously believe that MLK's dream of equality was a mistake because others twisted it, then there would be a lot of other dreamers who would also have to revile, inlcuding Jeshua (Jesus) of Galilee. His dream was neither exclusive nor immoral, and you should remember that foremost of all -- regardless of what others did following his death.

Seamus

[Redleg]

The fact that he created such a dream led them to bastardize it. If he hadn't created the dream, they wouldnt have bastardized it. Simple really.

Get off the degrading of Martin Luther King - your about to go to far with your comments.

Colombus was not the great man that the legend tries to make him out to be. He was just a man - who happened to have the best detailed record of the discovery of the America's so he gets more the day named after him. If Colombus only got a day named after him the real credit for the discovery of the new world goes to the individual who the America's are named after. It seems that in your attempt to defend Colombus you are also forgetting the other Europeans that discovered the New World first. You know those Vikings that braved the seas many years before Colombus was even born.

[Papewaio]

Most of the deaths caused where by disease, not much could have stopped that, even with todays technology if we landed in a country without immunity the people would be wiped out to a tenth of the population with years.

So all it would take is a single diesease carrying Euroasian to wash up on the shores of the Americas and bang... 90% dead.

CC was wrong in thinking the world was not a sphere ..he equated it to be like a womans breast and he was going from Spain to India around the nipple not the base... nice idea, just not accurate... he believed the circumference of the world at the point he was navigating was shorter.

After all he thought he had landed in India, and if it wasn't for the Americas being there he would have died in the Pacific...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

he equated it to be like a womans breast and he was going from Spain to India around the nipple not the base

Oh baby!

X-rated geography.

[Devastatin Dave]

CC was wrong in thinking the world was not a sphere ..he equated it to be like a womans breast

Thats strange, I equate the world as a giant butt hole thats got a lot of turds around it. Excluding present company of course...

[Papewaio]

Thats strange, I equate the world as a giant butt hole thats got a lot of turds around it.

That is a more accurate description of the gravity field around a black hole

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Gah...sorry...I lost my mind, I don't know what I was thinking. I'm...sorry. That's all I can say.

I didn't mean for it to come out like that. What I meant to say was that while one can say Columbus was an ass, one could say MLK was too. Everyone has their faults, but you must look past them in some cases.

Esp. when it comes to Italian Americans. I mean, we are the most discriminated against group in America. Period. I mean, despite that it was us (Amerigo Vespucci, Columbo, Caboto, et cetera), America hates us. More so than the blacks even. They've even gone so far as to taking away our rights to things we invented (i.e. The Telephone).

So this gets very personal for me, I've gotten into fights over these things. So I'll try not to lose it again. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

[solypsist]

oh please. please, please, please.

I mean, we are the most discriminated against group in America.

[Papewaio]

So I suppose in America pizza, pasta and lattes are very unpopular as they are associated with Italians.

[Ser Clegane]

I didn't mean for it to come out like that. What I meant to say was that while one can say Columbus was an ass, one could say MLK was too. Everyone has their faults, but you must look past them in some cases.

Quite frankly you comparison is absolute nonsense - what exactly were the "faults" of MLK one has to "look past"?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Quite frankly you comparison is absolute nonsense - what exactly were the "faults" of MLK one has to "look past"?

Is anyone perfect? That's the true question. Are you implying that a man was able to reach true perfection?

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Esp. when it comes to Italian Americans. I mean, we are the most discriminated against group in America.

I don't know where you get that (I would say Muslims would be most discriminated today).

Although I don't get that, I will say I'm sorry for all the people who have said anything to you along those lines. I will and would never make references to that unless I was playing around with you.

[Strike For The South]

The fact that he created such a dream led them to bastardize it. If he hadn't created the dream, they wouldnt have bastardized it. Simple really.

Thats really sad the man did so mush good than maybe anyone in history and you are belitling him for it for a what a few bad apples have done nice job ******

/edited for language

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Let's not lynch Kaiser too much - we are straying off topic to begin with.

Um.

On a more related note, I don't have off from school on Colombus Day.

Though I do get an extra day for it off in November.

[Strike For The South]

Let's not lynch Kaiser too much - we are straying off topic to begin with.

Um.

On a more related note, I don't have off from school on Colombus Day.

Though I do get an extra day for it off in November.

I get it off

[Uesugi Kenshin]

That sucks, we get five dayds off. Sat-Wed. Tuesday and Wednesday are inservices though. We didn't get Columbus Day off until about two years ago though.

Should we celebrate Columbus just because he impacted history? We don't have a Hitler day..... (Guy Fawkes Day seems similar though, anyone want to explain why that is a holiday? BTW I know that is really extreme, no comparison between Hitler and Columbus.)

Columbus will still be remembered, remember we have public schools and to the best of my knwoledge they all teach their students at least the basics of Columbus, if not more. The day is not his only recognition, he gets a substantial amount of space in the history book my AP History class is using.