Religion changes, a question for CA.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Ok, well after giskard released Pagan Dawn it became obvious that you can indeed play as Pagans. Now I've been doing some testing.

Now, you can change the religion so that the symbol changes (I changed REL_MUSLIM for the Turks to REL_HERETIC, now the campaign loaded up fine, HOWEVER even though the heretic symbol was on the Turk shield when hightlighted it stated the Turks as a Muslim faction, now I figured this must be because I didn't change the Culture etc., however this doesn't make sense, surely if I changed the Religion it should say Heretic as it certainly doesn't, and when I tried to change to HERETIC_CULTURE the campaign screwed up.

My question is, can I ever implement a faction as a heretic into the game (Yes I know that they'd not get any special units and so on but there we go, I just want to have a play.). Oh and what about Jewish?

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Power to the Sultan!
-Clan Seljuk

I don't know Akech, can't trust Mithrandir with the newbies, he may try and create a Miny Mith.-NagatsukaShumi

[Stefan the Berserker]

I'm not a CA, but as far as I know there is no HERETIC_CULTURE. If you look at the original Game there are no Heretic Minors, so why should they have made a programme for that?

[Lord Krazy]

HERETIC

LK

[barocca]

CALL THE GRAND INQUISITOR!!!!
PREPARE THE STAKE,
GATHER SOME WOOD...and some snags, what's a BBQ without snags??

also, seriously, i don't remember a heretic culture from the demo, so it's unlikely that type of culture can be properly implemented in campaign,
i think the culture definitions are hardcoded, can't be 100% positive, since the release .exe is scrambled i can't run ascii extract and generate the list of applicable cultures...


[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 10-05-2002).]

[giskard]

I just posted a message explaining the advantages of messing with religous values and other things. They are useful tools for us campaign writers but not always historically correct. IMO the best campaigns we write wont be historically correct because of this.

Heres the link. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000779.html

Religious values are required for both a faction and a region. Cultural values are also required but I dont remember seeing a heretic culture.

The best you can do is possible use the pagan culture because i am not sure that a heretic culture even exists in the game.

Giskard

[dclare4]

Hi there,

Don't think there even is a heretic culture. From what I know there's only REBEL, PAGAN, and the various major religions. I'm doing a Reformation/Renaissance mod and I'm thinking of making the Pagans into Protestants but I'm not sure how the Pagan culture handles priests/church type buildings (since originally they don't have any!!) - any thoughts on this anyone?

Regards,
Gilbert de Clare

[Proconsul]

I suppose you can create protestant priests & chruchs by adding them to the building and unit lists as "pagan_culture" and having them increase the number of "pagans" in their respective provinces...

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Confuzius says: "Do not worry that people don't know you: worry that you don't know them!"

[barocca]

i do seem to remember a Jewish Culture from the demo....

[Lord Krazy]

and a star of david somewhere too
and Heretic is reffered to in
docs I'v been looking at.

LK

[giskard]

I have seen part of france turn 10% jewish in the full game.

giskard

[barocca]

hmmm....

i think some serious investigation may be in order,

we "may" be able to add Heretic, but perhaps it was disabled?
but we Should be able to add Jewish easily enough...

now IF we could add new faction colours and facshield we could create a state of Israel for a mod...
hope the patch helps with this,

odd none of the Developers have made ANY comments on any of these Q's...

[GilJaysmith]

Target's on holiday and I don't think ECS reads Modding. I'll see what we can dig up tomorrow.

[Lord Krazy]

Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
Target's on holiday and I don't think ECS reads Modding.[/QUOTE]
---------------------------------------------
from what I can see not many people do
or if they do they post elsewhere.
It get's mighty lonely down her in
the basement sometimes.
I think all those mod questions
in the other forum should be moved here more frequently along with the nice answers
they get from CA.

LK
btw ECS has helped me before so he must
come here sometimes may be it's
every calander season

[This message has been edited by Lord Krazy (edited 10-08-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Lord Krazy (edited 10-08-2002).]

[dclare4]

I think the problem may be that the AI will probably not build it if its not programmed to. I'm working on the campaign and I made Princesses buyable units to test but the Muslim AI would never get a female child even when I enabled it for the Muslim factions. Anyways, whatever. I dont think pagans will build priests...

Any thoughts on this anyone?
Gilbert de Clare

[barocca]

dclare4,
someone mentioned there are scripts which determine what the AI builds,
i have not found these yet...
(so much to do, and so little time...)

[Lord Krazy]

everyboby should be able to make religious
units if it's harcoded it's silly.
This would not go down well in the
American constitution he he.


The ai builds units according
to prod11 so maybe buildings have a tag
prod13

LK

[barocca]

ok
have allowed pagans to build emissaries, religious units and other agents,

now i just have to get protraits working properly...

also found reference to heretic in one of the loc files,
we may also be able to add in heretic factions!!!

and i am having sooo much fun playing pagan faction - no pope to interfere, no crusades depleting my forces or pillaging my lands...
just a few Crusades sent at me from time to time...
oh yes, and the Golden Horde is my ally - the ai pagan faction is building agent units without me interferring!
just have to wait and see if the Golden Horde builds religious units!

[GilJaysmith]

Can confirm: Jewish and Heretic religions are religions, not cultures.

The science bit: cultures are stored as the numbers 1-4, and religions as 0-5. Attempts to force in any other value for these will cause crashes, as the game tries and fails to find relevant strings to print in parchments.

[barocca]

so we can't ahve a heretic culture,
could we assign heretic religion to a faction?
(same Q for Jewish)

[GilJaysmith]

Quote Originally posted by barocca:
so we can't ahve a heretic culture,
could we assign heretic religion to a faction?
(same Q for Jewish)[/QUOTE]

There are SetReligion:: lines in the startpos file. Try REL_JEWISH and REL_HERETIC as the values. If they work then I won't prohibit it.

[Lord Krazy]

Quote Originally posted by barocca:
so we can't ahve a heretic culture,
could we assign heretic religion to a faction?
(same Q for Jewish)[/QUOTE]

---------------------------------------------
Jewish culture I do know of one
so sounds realistic in the game

Heretic culture don't think so
it's more a frame of mind then
a way or life.

example
:This is you money.

:no never ,I will not accepte this.

:Kill "em
this would be a Hertic culture to me.
get my point, even if it's not 100% right.

LK

[barocca]

just a note
i'm currently having a lot of fun playing a pagan faction
- big bonus NO POPE
- big minus I AM THE TARGET OF ALL CRUSADES!!!

I'll try assinging Heretic tonight/tomorrow and see what happens...

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 10-10-2002).]

[NagatsukaShumi]

The only problem I have with the system is that the game may change the symbol to the correct Religion, but it'll still state it as Islamic etc.

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Power to the Sultan!
-Clan Seljuk
-The McChicken Head, official Seljuk Mascot

[Lord Krazy]

Just in the text or in behaviour of the faction.The text is not a problem
but the other could be hardcode
or else you need to add a few Labels

LK