BATTLE:Strategy,Tactics and Tips

[Seleukos]

I havent searched much in the other forums (for the "senior" members),
but i think there must be a place where even the junior members (junior for the forum doesnt mean junior for the Game) can post tactics or tips for the Battle!


So,i am waiting for suggestions from all,especially the more experienced.

ex:Use of units,combined tactics and so on.

Lets start with a tip:
The use of the special ability of archers:flaming arrows

Not use it,when u want to kill many of your opponents ,without causing an attack to u.

Use it when u want to provoke the enemy.Its sure ,that seeing his soldiers burning its not a plesant view for him,so its almost sure that he will make an attack quicker ,and more unprepared.

U can also take one unit of onagers,and throw fire-the enemy will be probably drifted to a quick charge.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

If outnumbered badly in a battle either play it safe and take a strong defensive position and risk las little as possible, attempt to divide the enemy army and take it down piece by piece, or risk everything and throw all of your army into a massive attack in an attempt to make the larger enemy army break when your charge strikes home. Hint: aim the charge at the general, focus missile units on him. Especially in MTW if the enemy general breaks or is killed his army may follow, if not at least some of his army should flee and you will hopefully be able to take advantage of that.

[Seleukos]

The use of Phalanx.

Its well known to most of players (and to readers of history too)
that the basic use of phalanx,is to face the opponents and try to cover the rear.

Formation
If u dont want your cavalry "stuck" at the rear of the phalanx,or u dont have non-phalanx infantry (as the Macedons and the southern Greeks),u can do this:

Form your battle line as a "^" (an angle -or open tringle).Put at the top the best parts of your pikemen. Every side unit will cover with their spears their front-side unit,so they cant be attacked by the rear.

U can also put them in a "π" formation :Place one more unit of pikemen at the back of the extreme right and left unit.So,when the enemy cavalry attacks from the rear,it will face pikemen=very bad for them.

Keep 1 or 2 unitsbehind your main line,not in phalanx formation,so they will be ready to run for help when the phalanx line is about to break somewhere,or they can run to stop cavalry when attacks.

Phalanx vs Elephants
Phalanx is a great tool against elephants.Put units in depth of 2 (one behind the other) The charge of elephants can brake a unit,but not 2.Many of them will be killed at the first charge against the spears,and the others will rout or get mad soon!

Generally,dont forget this: The phalanx formation,during the hellenistic era,is mainly a defensive formation,a way to press the enemy-a platform on which u can apply your tactics.So,try to keep steady the phalanx line of units,dont make unprepared attacks with it.
As history teaches ,phalanx was destroyed when it was divided.

"μηδέν εωρακέναι φοβερώτερον και δεινότερον,φάλαγγος μακεδονικής..."
("i have never seen something more terrible and fearsome,from the macedonian phalanx.." -
Leucius Emilius Paulus (the Roman winner at Pydna 168 BC)-from Plutarch

[Alexanderofmacedon]

This tactic is most useful for Thrace and Carthage, who have very good non-phalanx infantry:

Unless you are facing elephants do this:

When you are given you phalanx unit it looks like this

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I think you need to spread out the phalanx to cover more distance.Like this.

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Now, if there were to be a cavalry charge then you might be in trouble. Which is when you do this. Put a non-phalanx infantry type in rows of two behind the phalanx

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===========

This way, your spear wall is long, but you've still got depth. Have cavalry guarding your flanks, for they are excellent troops, not to mention you can use them to flank if you need to. Archers behind on skirmish will also help.

[Seleukos]

i think its very hard for cavalry to break a phalanx formation,esp the phalanxes with depth-pikemen phalanx,silver shields- even at a single line.

to charge from the front a phalanx equals to stupidity.
So,1 or 2 units to run for assistance in case of danger,just to the spots where they are needed ,i think is enough.

Cavalry at the flanks means that u must keep them there,and this minimizes your ability to "lead the game" with your moves.(its the main alexander's tactic= a solid phalanx that presses ,and maneuvers of the companions)

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Yeah, I should have told you I usually have two other units of cavalry too. One general and an other cavalry unit to manuever.

But seriously I do, and I use them to get enemy archers then I come from behind on enemy units. I'll hit one from behind causing much damage, then move to the next one.

You know, in a way, I'm much like Alexander in my tactics!


EDIT: And if you know how to use cavalry, I'm pretty sure they could easily break through two lines of phalanx...

[Seleukos]

not at all my indian friend!
If u have trained macedonians in your ranks they will smash every enemy's cavalry charge!
its impossible for face to face attack to brake the phalanx.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I need to get my internet running for online games for RTW. I'll show you a thing or two about cavalry!

[Seleukos]

ok then!
get it and i mwaiting for u...
Alexander vs Porus again
i ll have first to beat u,and then make u a friend of mine!

anyway,back to TACTICS!!!!!!

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Sorry to not go back to topic, but I don't see how I'll play Porus. There is no Indian units! Maybe we'll fight the battle of Ipsus

[Alexanderofmacedon]

As the Huns:

In BI, a new Horde faction is the Huns. At the beginning you are in horde form, and you have several troops. Not the best troops, but still, a kick ass army. Move half your army to Constantinople and half to Rome. Attack at the same time, and take the cities together. You've just taken the capital of the Western and Eastern empire in one turn! Now, just make money, defend your cities and expand.

[Seleukos]

nice tip Alexanderofmacedon ,but the thread is mainly for tactics on the battlefield,and no strategy on the campaign map.
waiting for more tactics!!!!!!!

[Lord Winter]

Never underestimate the power of a feigned (sp?) calvery retreat. It can:
1. tire your enemy out
2. Draw units into ambushs
3. Bring enemy units away form the main army so you can deal with them latter

[eyupwoof]

If they are availble Jav cav are perfect for the feign retreat tactic. Also be sure to use at least 3 units of jav cav if can to use this more sucsessfully. If they dont chase you you get to shoot them and if they do use swarm tactics as troops tend to panic if their on there own and outnumbered while getting charged from all directions, works great on romans ;)

[Razor1952]

Ah.... the heart of the matter for all the TW series.

Personally I think being the attacked rather than the attacker usually leads to a far stronger tactical postion, so campaign mode outmanoevering the ai is very important, eg. Seige their cities so they have to attack you ,eg. Place your army near hills so you can position uphill during battle waiting for the attack. Provoke them and dare them to attack. The ai will usually go for similar size armies, not taking into account too much your 10 star general and top quality troops. Also flogging them with a smaller army than theirs is especially fun.

Compostion of your army is also critical,eg having a few mounted missile units to tire out their infantry before their main attack works well in RTW.

Using suicide units like vanilla Seluecid scythe chariots or elephants . Postion these well away from your main force , send them in first into the rear if possible of their main army, and sure they will rout but will cause maximum mayhem. Great fun to execute well. Timing is everything

In the main battle try to maintain cohesion particularly of your main infantry, don't let your best troops go charging off to pursue some weak skirmishers(unless they'll never be needed in the battle again).


If playing a mod , whether you charge /flank depends on unit parameters. In RTR 6.1 you charge everthing for the charge bonus, other mods may require defense mode.

Flanking is always important as well, stopping the ai doing it and doing it yourself is a main part of battle manouvreing.

[Lord Winter]

If they are availble Jav cav are perfect for the feign retreat tactic. Also be sure to use at least 3 units of jav cav if can to use this more sucsessfully. If they dont chase you you get to shoot them and if they do use swarm tactics as troops tend to panic if their on there own and outnumbered while getting charged from all directions, works great on romans ;)

I prefer HA because they can shoot backwards
But javelins work much better on elephants

[eyupwoof]

Oh given the option HA are better yeah but for the west factions, its the only option unless you got mercs. Oh and javlin horsemen can shoot backwards.

[Seleukos]

The bad thing with horse archers,
is that u have always to keep an eye on them,
otherwise they enemy cavalry can trap them and slay them.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

But you don't have to really keep an eye on them really. Just keep an eye on their unit cards and you will see what is going on...

[Seleukos]

Ah.... the heart of the matter for all the TW series.

Personally I think being the attacked rather than the attacker usually leads to a far stronger tactical postion, .

Yes i agree!
But i think most of us faced an enemy that simply,doesnt want to move !!
So,when leading an attack one has to be careful,moving the units slowly,and trying not to brake the basic lines of his army.
Otherwise,the advantage is for the defender,for sure.

[Lord Winter]

This is one of my favorite traps to use aginst a aggressive enemy with limited calvary. I have always used it as cathrage but it could be used just as well with any faction with good calvary and phalanx. This strategy is very similar to the battle of canee (sp?).

----------------------------------------------

Army makeup (for cathrage)

Your army should contain this
1 Armored General
6 units of spearmen
3 units of spanish mercenaries
4 units of sacred band calvary
3 units of numidian calvary
2 units of skirmishers
1 unit of elephants


Deployment


Deploy your spanish mercenaries in the center of your line in a block. put a block of 3 phalanxes deployed a distance away from your mercenary on both flanks in a straight line. put your skirmishers in front of your mercenary and deploy calvary on the flanks. When you are done it should look like this
P= phalanx
N= Numidian calvary
c= Sacred band calvary
e= Elephants
m= Spanish mercenaries
g= General
s= skirmishers


s s
e n c c ppp mmm ppp c c nn
g

The battle
when your enemies advancing walk to forward and charge with your Spanish mercenaries and Skirmishers. When your skirmishers retreat behind your tr troops turn off fire at will to reduce casulties and conserve ammo. Keep the enemy calvary away with sacred band calvary, elephants and feigned retreats with your numdians. with both the enemy calvary and spanish mercenaries engaged. run your phalanxes to the enemas flanks. This is the most dangourous moment of the battle draw back your spanish mercenaries while at the same time advancing your javelins with fire at will back on. This will pull the enemy into a weak posture. form phalanx with your spearmen and advance into the enemy flank from both sides. Your enemy will rout and be destroyed.

[rotorgun]

Hey Ya'll,

Rotorgun here, and new to this thread. I've traded a few posts with O'le Alex of Macedon. He has some interesting ideas on the Phalanx that I'd like to try. One thing that works for me, at times, if facing a more or less equal army is to concentrate all my missle fire on one flank for awhile. I attempt to weaken a flanking infantry unit prior to attacking that flank. As I get close I shift fires to the enemy archers and general. If facing superior enemy archers I approach with my main line in open order to reduce casualties until just outside of charge range. Then I close ranks, and order my main line to a point slightly behind the enemy infantry line and let the main attack proceed.

Timing is critical as you don't want your main line caught by the enemy's mainline while in open formation. (I usually won't attempt this against the barbarian factions as they will often charge sooner than expected.) It is also important to properly screen your own flanks with good anti-cavalry troops to delay any attempt by his(her) cavalry to disrupt your attack. A few spearmen, or axe wielding units will suffice. Behind them are positioned your own cavalry-ready to counter charge theirs when they are engaged in melee with your flankers

Keeping some reserves is important as well. Also I tend to keep my general close to where my infantry line will meet its stiffest resistance. He provides a morale boost and is also ready to shore up either flank should an enemy cavalry outfit succeed in caving in my flank. He can also be ready to engage the opposing general unit if he attempts a breakthrough of the main line.

If I have missle cavalry available, I have found that sending them out to engage the enemy heavy cavalry ahead of time will often tempt them to chase these units around for awhile. You might lose one of them should they be cornered by the heavier horse, but it will by some time for your own heavy or light cavalry to engage his rear. I like to send them after the archers and missle units as soon as possible. This only failed once when I sent my Greek light cavalry after some of the dreaded Pharoah's Archers. These actually stood their ground and routed my horsemen. (Astounding units they are!)

Well, Ive been on the soapbox too long again. I hope I didn't bore all Ya'll

rotorgun
"Sir...they sure must be working that one horse to death!"-a soldier remarking to his OIC about the German horsedrawn artillery during the opening German barrage on the first day of the Battle of the Bulge.

[Seleukos]

hey rotorgun,wellcome to the thread!

Arrows vs arrows.

when 2 armies meet,its usual the first phase of the battle to be a rain of arrows to each other,before the melee.
I think the best think to do,is to concetrate firing on the enemy missiles.
So,if the enemy doesnt do the same,soon only U will have the advantage of arrows.
(the same tactic as in the modern warefare:first destroy the flaks,with the aeroplanes,and then bombard the targets u want)

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I would say use your cavalry for that, and concentrate your fire on the enemies best troops to kill them before they have an effect on your line.

[Seleukos]

I would say use your cavalry for that, and concentrate your fire on the enemies best troops to kill them before they have an effect on your line.

Yes,but an experienced player,wont leave his archers exposed to your cavalry charges.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

That's why I usually stack my cavalry...

[LestaT]

What ever faction I use I found that hammer and anvil works best.

[KhaderKhan]

What ever faction I use I found that hammer and anvil works best.

I think you'll find the "Pin 'N' Flank" tactic works universally on all the TW games

[Seleukos]

I f u can guys, write a short description of hammer and anvil and pin n'flack tactics ,for the less experienced players pls.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I like to hold a strong line, while taking my cavalry out to destroy enemies.

This is my plan:

So I have about 200 horses. A pretty fair sized cavalry, and with the impact alone it usually routes a unit. Unfortunetly I've only played the AI on VH, but still my plan works. I just take my 200 horse, focus them on one unit. When it routes (which is very soon) I then back out and then hit an other unit hard. I usually can knock out half the army like this. Of course I get knocked to about 20-30 horses, but it's still good. I'd really like to play online MP