Infantry in BI

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 17:04

repost

**A.Saturnus** · 10-10-2005, 17:22

Originally Posted by Zorlag

Now you make a good point...

The stats for un-upgraded units is this:

Levy Spearmen: attack 7, charge bonus 4, missile 11
armour 2, skill 5, shield 3, (=defence 10)

Axe Heerbann: attack 9, charge bonus 5
armour 7, skill 4, shield 6 (=defence 17)

With an extra experience point, the spears are almost equal in attack, but 6 short in defence. For sword heerbann even 9. That makes a huge difference.

**Kraxis** · 10-10-2005, 17:31

Not to say that the swords and axes attack with full speed (1) while the spears only attack at (0.73). Meaning the swords and axes land more than a third more attacks than an equal number of spears. Or said differently, the spears are 27% slower.

But it is the stronger morale that makes the difference. The bigger unit will suffer losses faster and suffer moralepenalties faster than the smaller unit in this case. Thus you can always expect the swords and axes to last a whole lot longer.

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 17:39

I did some testing and indeed melee units (in 1vs1) outlast spears because they attacked faster and have better defense. Spears didn't route easily though, many times there was less than 10 men left when it happened. Tried vs Chosen Axemen for fun and axemen won but only with 29 men left, 3 volleys of javelins really tore them up. Shielded infantry stood up to them better. So these guys are finally worth something but not "overpowered" and that makes me happy. ;)

**Kraxis** · 10-10-2005, 17:44

1v1 isn't good to check for morale, it is good for unit to unit tests.

If you want a more proper test you should test 4v4 or similar. There is a need for changes that can happen in a battle. Trust me if you don't try to overpower one side (such as halting and using up all the javelins) then you will see some good effects.

You shouldn't have used all the javelins as if you had been the other unit you wouldn't have let you opponent do that. One volley and that's it.

**Zatoichi** · 10-10-2005, 18:49

I've just started a campaign as the Franks having finally won my ERE campaign. Anyway, I like the default spear unit, but they do get whittled down very fast by archery. They are a good filler unit though, but I prefer having a mixed line up if at all possible, with a few of each infantry type so as to be adaptable.

**Bob the Insane** · 10-10-2005, 19:09

I have started doing a three row thing with the Germanic troops for defense. First row is spear troops in shieldwall three soldiers deep. Second row is archers. Third row is axemen (or other assault troops). With some infantry and or cavalry to protect the flanks this works very well.

The archers do a little damage and give a morale penalty to the enemy troops during their charge and the shieldwall appear to be able to absorb just about any charge without taking significant damage. Just ensure you keep the archers out of the way (leaving them on skirmish helps) and then charge in the axemen anywhere the line is under pressure. If you are lucky you can break the enemies attack, if not you should hold them long enough to win on the flanks and roll around them...

If the enemy pushes out skirmishers or archers of their own I would push my archers to counter, but you have to be careful because the AI in BI is hugely aggressive toward your archers if they are out in front.

I did experiment with a mixed line but I found that the swordsmen suffered a larger number of casualties when absorbing the assault than the (cheaper) spearmen so I put an end to that...

My offensive strategy is similar, pinning the enemy with the spearmen and looking for weaknesses to exploit. But it is no where near as tested as the defensive strategy (that says something about the AI tweaks in BI I think)...

So I guess I am saying that I find use for both troops types together...

**Dorkus** · 10-10-2005, 21:18

Originally Posted by Zorlag

Tried vs Chosen Axemen for fun and axemen won but only with 29 men left, 3 volleys of javelins really tore them up. Shielded infantry stood up to them better.

This is the only significant weakness of chosen axemen: pitiful armor. Having said that, it's easy to avoid missile fire.

And once they get into a melee, there's no stopping them. In BI, most units have had their armor upgraded significantly; this means ap units have become even more powerful.

warcry + ap = routing enemy

I think CAs might lose to the 60 man 1500g 700 upkeep first cohort unit, but that's about it.

For 450 gold and 100 upkeep, that's not bad at all....

**Zorlag** · 10-10-2005, 21:30

I saw on other forums that some spear units are not currently receiving their spear bonus, has anyone dug into game files to check this yet? This could partially explain why some cavalry units still hammer spears head on.

**Kraxis** · 10-11-2005, 00:28

Levy Spears have the attribute of light_spear. That grants some amount of resistance towards a cavaly charge, but the spear attribute (make sure that it is not the old 'spear') is much much stronger. Light spearmen do not get that one, while heavier ones do. Add to that the woeful defensive capabilities and it is obvious why the Levy Spears can't stand up to the Warlords.