Remember Elian Gonzalez?

**Tribesman** · 10-11-2005, 11:45

Not only spies, but people who gave flight patterns of a Cuban resistance group operating in international waters to Castro, who had his air force shoot down one of their planes.

Would that be the CIA backed terrorist group whose ex-military plane was shot down by Cuban fighters in Cuban Airspace ?
Or have you been listening to too much of ....the official propaganda of a totaltarian regime ?

Sorry, the father has a greater right to his son than anyone else, and that was ultimately what the case boiled down to.
Yep family values , it is better for a child to live with his father than with a convict in a house of convicts .
Besides which he was a wetfoot , since '94 wetfoots have to be repatriated , its government policy .

castro will do anything to keep that dam economic blockade,
Yes it is voted on every year , and every year it is always Cuba that uses its Veto so that the blockade is kept in place .

**English assassin** · 10-11-2005, 12:06

Bottom line for me was that you don't return a boy to a country run by perfid commies, regardless of whether they have decent healthcare or not

Why ever not? Cuba certainly has a bad record on fair trials and other important issues, but the healthcare and life expectancy is interesting, no? It suggests to me that maybe this is a communist regime that is actually trying some form of communism, as opposed to arbitrary rule by and in the interests of the apparachniks. Probaly they could do a bit better if Uncle Sam hadn't spent the last 40 years trying to [perform a sex act after which it may be uncomfortable to sit down] on them.

I'd disagree with this in principle, but its also worth adding that Castro will die shortly, whereupon Cuba will no doubt be immediately opened up to exploitation by sugar producing multinationals paying well under the US minimum wage, just like the good old days. Why, I bet they'll even have those foreign owned casinos open again soon. So Elian will get his chance to live in a capitalist paradise anyway.

**Idaho** · 10-11-2005, 12:37

The US gets it's knickers in a twist over Cuba and the rest of the world is largely non-plussed.

That 'article' was perhaps one of the worst pieces of journalism I have read in ..hmm.. days now. It is completely unsubstantive and just repeats the original material making scary ghost noises in the background.

**yesdachi** · 10-11-2005, 16:01

Originally Posted by Idaho

The US gets it's knickers in a twist over Cuba and the rest of the world is largely non-plussed.

That 'article' was perhaps one of the worst pieces of journalism I have read in ..hmm.. days now. It is completely unsubstantive and just repeats the original material making scary ghost noises in the background.

Excellent way of describing the article! Wooooo indeed.

As to Cuba, the US does get more excited about anything that happen there because it is only 90 miles away and there are a lot of people of Cuban decent here.

Not at you, Idaho, just in general.
I am curious if the Cuban people are looking forward to changes after Castro’s passing. Perhaps if there are any Cubans out there they could tell us their thoughts… … *crickets* … … oh, I’m sorry without free speech there’s not much chance for any Cubans to tell us their thoughts.

I don’t think state healthcare is a bad idea but I wouldn’t want to give up any of the limited freedoms I have to get it.

**Tribesman** · 10-11-2005, 16:18

there are a lot of people of Cuban decent here
Damn hispanic illegal immigrants , sneaking into the States , taking honest Americans jobs .....forget the Mexican border , send the minuteman project vigilantes to the Florida coastline .

Hmmm.....I wonder why the usual anti-illegal immigrant posters are so pro- illegal immigrant when it comes to this subject ?

**BDC** · 10-11-2005, 16:20

Cuba is entirely America's fault anyway. Castro only became a communist because America didn't want him to replace wossname, the chap before. So much corruption...

**Tribesman** · 10-11-2005, 16:25

Cuba is entirely America's fault anyway.
Not "entirely" BDC , mainly would be a better word to use .

**Crazed Rabbit** · 10-11-2005, 17:03

So a father should have his own son returned to him if, and only if, we are allies with the political regime under which he lives?

Great family values there.

Sorry, the father has a greater right to his son than anyone else, and that was ultimately what the case boiled down to.

His father? From whom he had been seperated since nearly a baby? Who hadn't seen him in years? How convenient to forget that his own mother died trying to get him to the USA. Admit it: the people here don't care a whit about returning him to his father, they just wanted to appease Castro.

The case didn't boil down to that, it boiled down to Clinton kissing Castro's butt.

And where is all this crap about 'great healthcare' coming from? It seems many are eager to believe whatever Castro's propaganda machine pumps out.

If his healthcare is so great, why hospitals in Havana look like this: http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm?

If it's free to all, why are cubans forced to use crappy hospitals such as the one above, and only cash paying tourists get to stay in the nice hospitals?

And why is the Topes de Collantes Tuberculosis Hospital, truly free to all Cubans during Batsita, now only open to wealthy tourists?

Crazed Rabbit

**Adrian II** · 10-11-2005, 13:26

Originally Posted by English assassin

Cuba certainly has a bad record on fair trials and other important issues, but the healthcare and life expectancy is interesting, no?

Sounds like the ideal prison to me.

(..) Castro will die shortly, whereupon Cuba will no doubt be immediately opened up to exploitation by sugar producing multinationals paying well under the US minimum wage, just like the good old days. Why, I bet they'll even have those foreign owned casinos open again soon.

After Castro's death I think we will see a lenghty transition in which the Communist party cadres will secure their cut of the profits whilst the country gradually opens up to the Miami fascists. Cuba will not become a cesspool, it will probably be more like Nicaragua after the Sandinistas.

**Tribesman** · 10-11-2005, 13:42

My mistake ....Would that be the CIA backed terrorist group whose ex-military plane was shot down by Cuban fighters in Cuban Airspace ?

It is only an established fact tha BTTR 1 was in Cuban airspace , is still disputed if BTTR 2&3 were in Cuban or international airspace .
Interesting to note that the pilot of BTTR 1 , a terrorist implicated in 30 murders has said that the Joint Chiefs , Airforce (NORAD) and USMC are liars , I thought they were his friends

**Soulforged** · 10-12-2005, 05:01

Originally Posted by English assassin

I'd disagree with this in principle, but its also worth adding that Castro will die shortly, whereupon Cuba will no doubt be immediately opened up to exploitation by sugar producing multinationals paying well under the US minimum wage, just like the good old days. Why, I bet they'll even have those foreign owned casinos open again soon. So Elian will get his chance to live in a capitalist paradise anyway.

Maybe Castro is following actually some real socialist doctrine up there. But I asure you this, if his brother lives long enough until he dies, the goverment will pass to him. If you think that Castro is a "bloody sadist" (

), then wait for his brother, infamous for being just that, even inside "the family".

Originally Posted by CrazzedRabbit

Not much. They're a communist state; they never have good economies.

YEH!! Sure...errrr....

**Tribesman** · 10-12-2005, 07:44

Oh come on your a smart guy. You know damn well why we have a higher infant mortality rate and it sure isnt because Cuba has better healthcare.

Nice cut and paste Gawian , so if you ignore things like infant mortality , life expectancy and healthcare then Cuba doesn't have healthcare ??????
So thats a way of saying yes cuba does have good healthcare but we will ignore that and go on about something else entirely

**English assassin** · 10-12-2005, 09:26

If we limit the definition of health to a decrease in child mortality, longer life expectancy, primary healthcare, and the creation of research and biotechnological institutes, then Cuba is the image of socialist success.

This has to be satire, right? I mean, even I wouldn't have given Cuba such glowing praise as this? This is meant to REFUTE the idea they have good healthcare, or did I misunderstand?

Once again we see how opposites attract, since a similar train of thought equaiting health and the broader economic environment in defiance of the basic facts would have been very familiar to apologists for soviet Russia.