Women in War

**Suraknar** · 10-12-2005, 23:20

Very Nice,

Thank you Gents

**Red Harvest** · 10-13-2005, 02:09

I distinctly recall at least two very similar incidents of female soldiers being killed on ACW fields. I can't recall what the 2nd was, but the 1st I remember reading was during General Crook's expedition against the Virginia and Tenn. Railroad that burned the New River Bridge after defeating the rebels at Cloyd's Mountain. During the artillery duel across the New River Bridge, Col. Rutherford B. Hayes (yes, the future President) ordered some dismounted cavalry troopers to take cover. One from the 5th West Virginia Cav. refused, saying "he" would take cover when Hayes dismounted and did the same. Hayes repeated the order and again the soldier refused. Before Hayes could say anything else, an exploding shell killed the private. Dr. J.T. Webb discovered the soldier was a woman when he examined the body. Confederate neighbors had killed her father and brother, so she enlisted as a man to take revenge. I don't have a name for her unfortunately.

(This anecdote came from The Battle of Cloyds Mountain by Howard Rollins McManus.)

Wish I could remember what the other was, I came across it within the past few months, but I'm not sure which battle and would have to dig through dozens of books to locate it again. What struck me was how similar it was to the New River Bridge incident.

**Abdel Hakam** · 10-15-2005, 22:16

Several Muslim women led armies, and a few were known to have fought personally, especially early in Islamic history.

Here is a quote about Um Amara. I heard somewhere she wounded 12 men at the battle of Uhud, fighting next to Muhammed:

"This was a historic occasion when leaders of Yathrib/Madinah came to the Prophet (saw) in Makkah, where he and his followers were being persecuted, and pledged allegiance to him. They sent one small party first, then the larger party which is the better known; both pledges took place under cover of darkness, without cognizance of the Makkan chieftans. Both the First and Second Pledges of Aqabah have political as well as spiritual implications.# That is, those who pledged were not only declaring their faith in Islam, but promising political support and, if necessary, military protection, to the Prophet. Here is the relevant passage from the compendium on the Companions by Ibn Hajar al Aqalani, Al Isaba fi Tamyiz al Sahaba.

Naseeba (often called Nusaiba) bint Ka'b bin 'Amr al Ansariya al Najjariya Um Amara, who is as well-known by her kunya Um Amara as she is by her name.

Ibn Ishaq mentions, narrations from multiple sources, that in the Second Pledge of Aqabah there were from the Madinan tribe of Bani Khazraj sixty-two men and two women, and the narrators claim that the women pledged... [Note here the incredulity of the historian Ibn Ishaq and his reluctance, writing as he was in a period well after the time of the early Muslims, to believe that the women really participated! # Despite the verification of this fact by more than one narrator!# In the historian's time, women were already pushed out of most forms of public political participation.] ... claim that the women pledged the Prophet peace and prayers be upon him, and he did not used to shake hands with women; rather, he used to put them to the question, and if they agreed, he said, "You may go."# The two women were from the family of Bani Mazin bin al-Najjar, Naseeba and her sister, both the daughters of Ka'b. Naseeba had her husband, Zaid bin 'Asim, there with her, and her son by him, Habib, the one who was later killed by Musailama# [a claimant to prophethood after the death of Muhammad].# She also had Abdullah, who later narrated a hadith about wudu.

[The following is an abridgement]

When she heard the news that Musailama had killed her son Habib, she swore an oath to God that she would kill Musailama or die trying, and she participated in combat in the battle of Yamamah (waged against Musailama).# She sustained twelve wounds in that battle and her hand was lopped off.# [Musailama was killed in the battle.]

She also participated in combat at the Battle of Uhud (much earlier), and was party to the Pledge of Ridwan as well."

Also a bit later there was Um Hakim:
######
"Another example of courageous womanhood is Um Hakim, daughter of Al Harith who Participated in the battle against the Romans while she was still a newly-wed bride. Her husband had been martyred before her eyes, but instead of wailing over his dead body, she seized the pole of the tent in which her marriage had been consumated and killed Seven of the enemy at the archway which is still known as the Archway of Um Hakim."

There also was a Syrian woman named Zenobia from the city Tadmor or Palmyra who lead a rebellion against Rome with some success. I don't know if she fought personally.

**Suraknar** · 10-19-2005, 01:51

Quite right :)

Queen Septima Zenobia of Palmyra governed Syria from about 250 to 275 AD. She led her armies against the Roman armies of Emperors Claudius and Aurelian.

And thank you for the Muslim Women references, this was great to read

**Brutus** · 10-19-2005, 10:25

Hmm, are you sure Jaqueline of Bavaria (Jacoba van Beieren, 1401-1436, countess 1417-1433), countess of Holland, Hainault and Zealand actually fought herself? That seems rather unlikely to me. It is true that she was at war with her uncle John of Bavaria, bishop-elect of Liege and claiming to be count himself, and later with duke Philip the Good of Burgundy, but not as warior herself.
Otherwise, I got some further examples of women 'generals' for you:
Margareth of Bavaria, countess of Holland, Hainault and Zealand (1311-1356, countess since 1345/46) was in civil war with her son William V, who she had first installed as regent.
Jeanne of Brabant (1332-1406, duchess of Brabant and Limbourg 1355-1406) was in 1356 entangled in a succesion war with Louis of Male, count of Flanders.
By the way, all these women eventually lost.

**Hurin_Rules** · 10-19-2005, 16:46

It is my impression that women were more frequently commanders than most people expect, but that they rarely fought with their own hands. One didn't need to be a 'warrior' to be a 'commander' in the Middle Ages. Although being able to fight personally was certainly a plus, it was not an absolute necessity. Think of all the kings who simply directed actions and never had a sword get near them.

**Kraxis** · 10-20-2005, 04:24

Originally Posted by Abdel Hakam

I heard somewhere she wounded 12 men at the battle of Uhud, fighting next to Muhammed:

Originally Posted by Abdel Hakam

She sustained twelve wounds in that battle and her hand was lopped off.# [Musailama was killed in the battle.]

She also participated in combat at the Battle of Uhud (much earlier), and was party to the Pledge of Ridwan as well."

Interesting coincidence... Wounded twelve and was later wounded twelve times herself (it isn't clear if the hand is considered one of the twelve). If we are to believe it then fate has come back to even the score it seems.

**Abdel Hakam** · 10-29-2005, 19:52

Kraxis: Concerning the coincidence you mention, I probably am having a confused memory. I like the idea about fate since it is a little rash to swear oaths to Allah to kill an enemy. Why assume Allah wants this?

Anyway until I find a reference it would seem the recurrance of the number 12 is an error on my part. It seems too strange. It could also have been a bad translation. I would of course prefer to blame the source, but sadly I can't find it now!!

If I find there WAS a coincidence I will post about it.

**edyzmedieval** · 10-29-2005, 20:15

Also, the Legend of Aiyaruk, a Mongolian Princess.....

**Kraxis** · 10-30-2005, 01:09

Originally Posted by Abdel Hakam

Kraxis: Concerning the coincidence you mention, I probably am having a confused memory. I like the idea about fate since it is a little rash to swear oaths to Allah to kill an enemy. Why assume Allah wants this?

Anyway until I find a reference it would seem the recurrance of the number 12 is an error on my part. It seems too strange. It could also have been a bad translation. I would of course prefer to blame the source, but sadly I can't find it now!!

If I find there WAS a coincidence I will post about it.

Well, I have to admit that I believed that it might have been an error of some kind during the line of thought. I experience it too often myself to not recognize it in others.

But it would indeed be cool to know if it is a coincidence.