Charging through your own units

**CountMRVHS** · 10-12-2005, 22:31

What are the effects of this?

I'm thinking of this specific situation: Suppose I'm playing the Saxons, and I make a shieldwall with a bunch of frontline troops like Keels and Levy Spearmen. Behind this wall I've got my general on his warlord cav. The enemy comes forward and makes contact with my shieldwall, but I notice one of my units is beginning to waver.

Does it make sense for me to charge my general's cav THROUGH that unit to engage with the enemy soldiers? Does a charge like this disrupt the formation of my spears and make matters worse for me? Does anyone do this?

I always try to send my cav to outflank them and charge from the rear of the enemy, but oftentimes it's too late -- my shieldwall has collapsed anyway and my general gets trapped in a melee with the enemy who can now just focus on him. It would be faster I guess to just charge him right through my own guys, but I wanted to see how other people do it. Alternatively, it doesn't need to be a general, but any second-line infantry: for example I could have my shieldwall all lined up to anticipate the enemy charge and have a line of Axemen directly behind it to rush in THROUGH my spears and engage the enemy that way. Again, my usual tactic is to have the heavy-hitters on the wings so they can flank; but my shieldwall sometimes doesn't hold long enough.

I'm just wondering if charging through my own men is a good way to shore up weak spots, or if it makes matters worse....

How do you all do it?

CountMRVHS

**Alexanderofmacedon** · 10-12-2005, 22:40

Basically in my opinion if they break through the lines you're in trouble. I try to keep that from happening at all times. If they are breaking through, plug it up. With cavalry, second line infantry or whatever.

Now the reason I say this, is because my tactics are to have the main battle line strong and sturdy enough to where I don't really have to watch it. I like to have tons of cavalry and cavalry archers, that I use in out manuevering the enemy. In my opinion, if you hold the line long enough, your cavalry will be done with the enemies cavalry and archers, in good time, allowing them to return to hit the enemy from the rear. Sometimes my front line never gets a hint of battle because I completely destroy enemies with my cavalry.

For your situation I would say yes. Even if you do hit a couple of your own you need to plug up that hole. Not to mention the fact that it's the general coming for a charge. Any enemy soldier will be frightened and any ally will be excited.

Hope it helped...

**ChaosLord** · 10-12-2005, 22:46

Yeah, definitly charge through your own men if its needed and don't forget to use rally. But don't just stop there, with decently armored cavalry you can charge right through the enemy unit too, then swing around and hit them from behind. Thats what I do when in cramped quarters, you can even use it on the opening part of the battle. Sending your cavalry crashing through their lines with your infantry just behind. Their formation will be disorganized and its even possible they will turn to try and chase your cavalry, exposing their rear/flanks to your infantry.

**CountMRVHS** · 10-13-2005, 03:36

Ah; good tips guys, thanks!

I wondered about how the proximity of the general affects soldiers' morale. I'm more used to the MTW system, where a general's command is directly related to the distance at which his men get a morale boost. In BI, I have no idea what command stars even *do* for units -- they obviously don't give 1 "valour" for every 2 command stars, for example.

But then, is all this stuff in one of the fine RTW guides here on the forums? ANd if so, does it still apply to BI?

Anyway, thanks for those responses; I'll be more proactively plugging holes in my front line from now on.

CountMRVHS

**Kekvit Irae** · 10-13-2005, 04:31

According to Frogbeastegg's guide:

Ill starred omens
Your generals and captains will collect command stars as they win battles. These stars make them more effective. I shall quote CA developer Jerome Grasdyke on how stars work:
“It currently affects both morale and combat ability - we tried it for a while with just morale, but it ended up being not enough of a bonus. The combat calculations have changed so much from Rome to Medieval as to be unrecognisable, so it's no longer easy to equate stars to experience.

As a rule of thumb it's one point of attack per command rank, up to a maximum of 10, and this can become negative for very bad generals. Experience is one point of attack and one point of defence per chevron, plus a morale bonus.

The general's command also controls his radius-of-effect, which is set to 30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence. This is used to award morale bonuses only, and is calculated between the actual general's position and the centre-point of nearby units.”

**Ciaran** · 10-13-2005, 10:23

There could be a downside to charging through your units, at least it looks like it on screen: your massive charge gets disrupted and slows down some, due to the fact they´re wriggling throug the own unit first. I´not sure how that translates into actual battle results, but maybe it´s something to keep in mind.
A big "don´t" is charging through your own phalanx units, if those formations get disrupted they lift their spears and that spells certain doom.

**Magraev** · 10-13-2005, 11:36

I'd prefer to put most cav on the flanks. Their impact are much greater when delivering flank or rear charges.

Save the warlord behind the lines for the first enemy breakthrough. He can stop the disaster by a well-aimed nondisrupted charge. A couple of reserve infantry units can serve the same purpose if you have them. In that case I'd probably use the warlord as a flanker.

**Kraxis** · 10-13-2005, 12:08

It is worth noting that sending heavy cavalry (such as a warlord) through your own units with high speed might send your own men sprawling. They won't die, but they will be knocked down and a good way outside the formation. That can be very disruptive.

**PseRamesses** · 10-13-2005, 12:41

Originally Posted by Kraxis

It is worth noting that sending heavy cavalry (such as a warlord) through your own units with high speed might send your own men sprawling. They won't die, but they will be knocked down and a good way outside the formation. That can be very disruptive.

Yup.
I only charge through my own ranks when the enemy routes en-masse or on one flank. When I do I hit "loose formation" command and my infantry will open up for the rear assault. Works well and isn´t so disruptive

**Kraxis** · 10-13-2005, 14:42

That is why I don't do it much. Only when I look like I might lose.

**Ludens** · 10-13-2005, 15:53

Charging through your own men is usually a bad idea. Not only will you disrupt your formation, you cavalry will also have trouble reaching full speed (and gaining a charge bonus). It would work if the enemy is wavering too and a cavalry charge might scare them enough to start routing, but otherwise I think the loss of formation might result in more casualties, apart from exposing your warlord to a nasty melee.

I think it would be better to let your men rout and then hit the enemy while they lose formation when chasing. William the Conquerer used this tactic to great effect at Hastings.

A general gives a morale bonus to nearby troops, but this "aura effect" doesn't strech far. You need to keep him within say 20 meters or so of the wavering units for it to show up on the morale-status.