Medieval Movies

[Steppe Merc]

Yeah, Lord of the Rings wins for me. When you look at how steep the mountain was that the Rohhirrim charged down, and when you consider that the Uruks broke the line before they met (which often happened historically), its not that far fetched that the Rohhirrim would have done nasty damage.

And Pelenor is just awesome. The fact that Legolas kills three Oliphants at once does make it lose points, but just 2.

[Kraxis]

Actually horses are not good at running down step inclines. As can actually be seen from the scene, the cavalry is simply not running very fast as the horses are leaning back to retain balance.

Also the Uruks didn't break before contact, that is something Uruks wouldn't do (the no fear part). No they were blinded and broke formation of pikes, letting the cavalry get between them. Not terribly good.

What happened would be something like valoured Armenian Heavy Cavalry (they are the most similar to the Rohirrim) charging into prepared Swiss Armoured Pikemen. Result? It should have been a unit of crushed cavalry.

And Legolas didn't kill three... Wasn't it just one?

[Steppe Merc]

Oh, guess I was wrong. And now that I think about it, that hill is way to steep. But I always thought the Uruk-hai couldn't compete with the Mordor Uruks, and were inferior due to the fact they were grown more quickly.

I thought Legolas killed one, then it tripped and knocked over two more... mabye it was just another one. But that is still a bit overkill

[Roark]

The Uruk-Hai are faster and stronger, but the Mordor Orcs tended to be more cunning/crafty.

[Kraxis]

The Uruk-Hai are faster and stronger, but the Mordor Orcs tended to be more cunning/crafty.

Yup, that was my taking on it too. Note the small reference Gimli gives to their capabilities. They are a far cry from anything they have yet to meet.
They are created by the mastermind that Saruman is... Obviously he did quite well.

[lars573]

Just make sure you never buy a movie called the Conqueror or Conqueror of the desert. It's about Temujin Genghis Khan, but it's form 1956 so all the roles are filled with white or hispainic actors. John Wayne plays Temujin.

[Rosacrux redux]

The best ever medieval film is a flick I've watched a couple of times but can't quite remember the title... I think it was "flesh and blood"

It's a Paul Verhoeven film (of the 4th man, Robocop, Total Recal fame and Showgirls infamy) and it features Rutger Hauer as a very convincing mercenary captain. The cinematography is great, the period is being depicted with thrilling accuracy (you cam almost smell medieval, that's how good) Hauer is, as I said, very convincing, there are slight (or... brutal) flops concerning weaponry and such, but the atmosphere is stunningly medieval (how really the medieval era was) and Jennifer Jason Leigh (quite pretty back then in 1985 when the film was made) has a couple of very hot nude scenes.

There ain't much battle in it (it's not a war flick) but the first scenes are about a full-fledged siege and they are fun to watch anyway. The real fun starts later, of course.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Yeah, Lord of the Rings wins for me. When you look at how steep the mountain was that the Rohhirrim charged down, and when you consider that the Uruks broke the line before they met (which often happened historically), its not that far fetched that the Rohhirrim would have done nasty damage.

It nearly made me cry to see Saruman's toughest bad guys break the lines for a small cavalry charge. It also made me cry when the cavalry stopped for a minute and watched the enemy, thinking: "perhaps if we wait long enough they'll turn their spears towards us and form a nice little phalanx". The only way to show the scene without being inaccurate or making the orcs look silly, would be to make them halt for at the most a few seconds, then quickly charge down towards the orcs taking them by surprise, and hitting them to the flank. As it was now, in both Helm's deep and Pellenor fields the orcs managed to reorganize. And 100.000 orcs breaking ranks in Pellenor fields against 600 cavalrymen was plain stupid - how scared are you of orcs if they are that big cowards? Anyway, the movies were very good despite these flaws, even if I may sound a little negative.

[Kraxis]

And 100.000 orcs breaking ranks in Pellenor fields against 600 cavalrymen was plain stupid - how scared are you of orcs if they are that big cowards? Anyway, the movies were very good despite these flaws, even if I may sound a little negative.

While I agree withyou on the previous accounts you should not underestimate the results of a cavalry breakthrough. Gaugamela and Issus? Pretty much the same happened there, actually fewer cavalry broke through.
And honestly, if I was a Gondorian and knew how much I sucked (Orcs slapping them around) I would certainly be afraid.

Orcs were good at offensive actions as their many numbers could cover any event but if events conspired against them they would not be very strong.
Many armies have shown themselves brave and tenacious only to have some unforseen event in the rear cause them to break off their assault and flee in terror (despite the fact that they suffered an equal chance of death to the front).

[The Wizard]

At Issus and Gaugamela the cavalry broke through pretty undisciplined troops -- Uruk-Hai are presumed to be strong, tireless and well-honed for military matters. So, no, without Gandalf's trick, the battle of Helm's Deep would have been a pretty sad affair.

[Rodion Romanovich]

While I agree withyou on the previous accounts you should not underestimate the results of a cavalry breakthrough. Gaugamela and Issus? Pretty much the same happened there, actually fewer cavalry broke through.
And honestly, if I was a Gondorian and knew how much I sucked (Orcs slapping them around) I would certainly be afraid.

Orcs were good at offensive actions as their many numbers could cover any event but if events conspired against them they would not be very strong.
Many armies have shown themselves brave and tenacious only to have some unforseen event in the rear cause them to break off their assault and flee in terror (despite the fact that they suffered an equal chance of death to the front).

Yeah, but at Gaugamela the enemy was pinned, undisciplined and didn't outnumber their opponents that much. They outnumbered the cavalry by far, but since the infantry was pinned, the cavalry just needed to hit a very small part of the line at the time, with perhaps even superiority in numbers in each such confrontation, and rout the pinned enemy, then proceed to the next part of the line and so on. It's enough to rout a small fraction of such a line, perhaps just one fifth, in order for the others to panick, because they have nothing to put up against the cavalry because they're occupied at the front.

The orcs weren't pinned and could form a both strong and deep line, pack tightly, and if they had stood up the charge would have stopped after 10 ranks at the most. By that time, the orcs could have moved in from the sides and started enveloping the cavalry.

[Steppe Merc]

Well, the orcs were getting hit from both sides, the cavalry coming down from Helms Deep, and the ones charging down the hill. How many riders did Eomer have? I should know that, and I'm sure it answered it, but I can't rember...

But the Pelenor Fields battle was better anyway. The orcs break before the charge then, right? Or am I just nuts? Though I don't understand why they choose to charge the Oliphants, instead of shooting them full of arrows.

[Kraxis]

Ok it seems people are messing this up a bit.

Now do anyone believe there was 100.000 Uruk-Hai at Helms Deep? Good. Then it obviously can't be Helms Deep I was commenting.

At Pelenor the Orcs were occupied just as much as the Persian infantry, in fact the entire Persian levy left the field without ever getting into contact due to this breakthrough.
The frontlines were fighting while those behind could turn and oppose the enemy cavalry. It just is that the formation would not be behind them, it woul be a few ranks only that could oppose the charge. Effectively the Rohirrim flanked the Orcs. Locally the Orcs faced them of course.
And I doubt the Orcs were much better in terms of discipline and and morale than the Persian levies. The humans do pretty much regard them with contempt, not only becasue of the brutality but also because they are bad as warriors. Well equipped but bad, they were not some kind of Uruk-Hai.
And the 6000 Rohirrim is certainly better than the about 8000 Macedonians against 150.000+ Persians.

The Orcs do not break before the charge, they are on the verge of it though, but it happens just as the cavalry strikes home. After the initial contact the cahrge should haev slowed down, and I was later pleased to notice that some of the Rohirrim do indeed get bogged down. But overall they could never have kept rolling like this. Nor could they just haev swept the first ranks away as we see, it would have been a huge pile of bodies. I do not doubt that perhaps the Orcs could have routed from that, but it was too clean.

But if we assume the charge had gone well then 6000 heavy cavalry could very easily have routed and almost annihilated 100.000 Orcs. That was my point.

[Pericles]

Medieval movies:

1) I bought the Kingdom of Heaven dvd - I enjoyed it a lot - lots of atmosphere. There are also two (one hour) documentaries on disc two that are very good about telling about the history of the Crusades. Note: a Director's cut of the film will be coming out next year which will include an extra HOUR added to the movie. Still, it is a worthwhile buy.

2) I also bought Holy Warriors a 2 hour PBS dvd documentary about King Richard and Saladin which is a continuation of the story from Kingdom of Heaven. This is an excellent "living documentary" as it uses actors, extras and period costumes to tell the story.

Together, both dvds form a "compete" picture of the history of the crusades. Highly enjoyable and informative.

3) For a more campy film I would suggest Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. It is a pretty good, light-hearted film, and the actor playing the Sheriff of Nottingham is worth the price of the extended version of the picture. Sean Connery also makes an appearance at the end of the film as King Richard.