Got a question for the Backroom

[Redleg]

Need to find out about this organization - from what I can tell its a Mason Group for Teenage Males but not really sure. Has anyone ever heard of the Order of DeMolay and can you tell me anything about it.

A google search gets me their website but counter information is available it seems.

[The Stranger]

you mean like the free masoners and DeMolay from the templars

[Redleg]

you mean like the free masoners and DeMolay from the templars

That is pretty much correct - there seem to be an young mens organization that is called the Order of DeMolay that is part of the Masonic Lodge.

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi Redleg,

IIRC Jacob de Molay was the last Head of the Templar order when the Pope
arrested them all. He refused to acknowledge the charges of heresy etc. till
he was executed.
Rumour has it that the remaining order members, those that could escape,
later cofounded the Masonic order or at least became part of it.
The name Order of Molay seems to relate to this chapter. I would guess
that Members of the Order of Molay follow certain values that they connect
with the Knights Templar.

As to what they're up to, I've no idea. Seems pretty harmless.

[Tribesman]

I didn't know John Wayne and Bill Clinton were in it .

[Franconicus]

This is what I found :
http://www.britannica.com/ebi/articl...?tocId=9321409

http://www.kclibrary.org/localhistor...&mediaID=35071
… Frank Land was not yet 30 when, in 1919, he founded the Order of De Molay. It was a youth organization designed to benefit fatherless boys. Its appeal was to youths 14 to 21, teaching leadership and citizenship. The times were right, and De Molay caught on big.

From modest local beginnings, De Molay's membership by the end of 1920 stood at 3,000. "Dad" Land became De Molay's first full-time director. He served 40 years. During that time the order touched the lives of three million men and boys. The organization boasted "alums" to "Lum & Abner" (the radio comedy team). At its peak, De Molay had 2,000 chapters in 12 countries in all 50 states. …

http://www.caiorg.org/Treasure%20Che...ribute-004.htm

http://www.geocities.com/racinemason.../History9.html

Sounds very conservative to me

Have you already taken a look at the Pendulum of Umberto Ecco?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Freemasonry is evil!

There I said it. Formed by the servants of the Templar that escaped to Scotland, they're one of the most anti-Catholic organizations on Earth.

[Duke Malcolm]

Freemasonry's the thing with the funny handshakes, isn't it? How can that be evil?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Freemasonry's the thing with the funny handshakes, isn't it? How can that be evil?

No, they're the thing that has the freaky initiation rituals...I'll shut up, they're spying on me I think.

[Roark]

The anti-Catholicism thing is antiquated, and was a response to the Catholic church's persecution of Freemasons on a grand scale.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

The anti-Catholicism thing is antiquated, and was a response to the Catholic church's persecution of Freemasons on a grand scale.

You mean the French killing the Templar claiming it's the Catholic church's work?

[Red Harvest]

Freemasonry is evil!

There I said it. Formed by the servants of the Templar that escaped to Scotland, they're one of the most anti-Catholic organizations on Earth.

Terrific, another thread hijack.

I've known quite a few Masons. Haven't met one yet who was evil. The Catholic church is rather anti-Mason and I've read that they forbid Catholics from becoming Masons, but Masons are non-denominational, and have Catholic members.

"Freemasonry is evil!" makes about as much sense as saying "All Catholics are pedophiles."

[Redleg]

Well yes indeed a hijack has occured. BTW the reason I asked about this order is because my son has been invited to particpate in the Order of DeMolay - and I haven't a clue on what the order is or what it is about. Needless to say I was hoping someone in the Tavern could clue me into what it was about or a source other then the official sites of the chapters and the overall order.

If anyone has a real clue about what it is - PM please or post here.

[solypsist]

please stay on topic.

Redleg, I will use a corporate lexisnexis account when i am next in the AP building, most likely Friday. let's see what it turns up.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Well, Redleg, if it's a sect of Freemasonry, i'd seriously consdering not allowing my son to go. But, I'll do a bit of reasearch to help you out abit.
EDIT: http://www.vtfreemasons.org/demolay/ this seems to be them.

[Strike For The South]

Well yes indeed a hijack has occured. BTW the reason I asked about this order is because my son has been invited to particpate in the Order of DeMolay - and I haven't a clue on what the order is or what it is about. Needless to say I was hoping someone in the Tavern could clue me into what it was about or a source other then the official sites of the chapters and the overall order.

If anyone has a real clue about what it is - PM please or post here.

How old is your son?

[Redleg]

please stay on topic.

Redleg, I will use a corporate lexisnexis account when i am next in the AP building, most likely Friday. let's see what it turns up.

That would be most appreciated - the google search just gives me vanilla information - not much use in making a decision.

If the organization helps my son come out of his internalized shell - then I see absolutely no harm with allowing him to particapate in such an organization, but currently I am soley lacking information to make a decision.

STFS he is 12 years old - in the gifted and talented programs for both acdemics and theather - in other words much smarter and more talented then either of his parents.

[Strike For The South]

That would be most appreciated - the google search just gives me vanilla information - not much use in making a decision.

If the organization helps my son come out of his internalized shell - then I see absolutely no harm with allowing him to particapate in such an organization, but currently I am soley lacking information to make a decision.

STFS he is 12 years old - in the gifted and talented programs for both acdemics and theather - in other words much smarter and more talented then either of his parents.

In GT wow thats good. Im sorry if I ccant be of much help but is it school sponserd?

[Redleg]

In GT wow thats good. Im sorry if I ccant be of much help but is it school sponserd?

Naw it seems to be sponserd by the Masons. Not really sure about the Masons - but I don't buy into the theory that they are evil.

[Strike For The South]

Naw it seems to be sponserd by the Masons. Not really sure about the Masons - but I don't buy into the theory that they are evil.

Just be careful (like I need to say that ) my pops was a mason he seems fine

[Franconicus]

Red, I can understand that you have your doubts! Red some books about the templars and some of the followers. Most of the organisations that call themselfs templars or similar are a bit - strange.
You know Foucault's Pendulum of Umberto Ecco, I guess. He names a lot of those societies. I have to check this. When do you need your information.

P.S.: Here is another link:
http://www.lilnet.org/DeMolay.html
This is a boy’s fraternity organized in 1919 at Kansas City under Masonic sponsorship. The ritual is “built around the fundamental precepts of love for parents, reverence for sacred things, patriotism, purity, courtesy, comradeship, fidelity, and loyalty to the public school as the citadel of American liberty.” De Molay was the last Grand Commander of the medieval Knights Templars and died in 1314. Membership in the fraternity is open to boys from 14 to 21 who are sons of Freemasons or vouched for by one of them as a worthy comrade. The organization has a ritual, altar with Bible, chaplain, organist, deacons, burial and memorial ceremony. Its ritual is characterized by deism. Work righteousness abounds in its pages. “A blameless life robs the grave of its victory.” There are many prayers, but all are Christless.

[Meneldil]

FYI, most of these groups that claim to be direct heirs of the last Templars are only right wing nutjobs, a la KKK.

Although I have a not that bad knowledge of both the Templars and Freemasonery, I never heard about that DeMolay order (and from what Franconicus just posted, I'd sure aswell not want my son to join it, although that might be because I'm liberal )

And please, do not start another conspiracy/illuminati theory discussion.

[Redleg]

@ Franconicus - Not for a week - its hard to find any press on the organization either negtive or positive. Just websites indiciting that the order exists and that it seems to be a legimate youth organization associated with the Masons.

@Meneldil - not sure if I will - but I can't make an informed decision nor go to the open house for the order if I am not informed. Fear based decisions are not for me. However I have know some Freemasons and they were liberials - if that helps you out.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Terrific, another thread hijack.

I've known quite a few Masons. Haven't met one yet who was evil. The Catholic church is rather anti-Mason and I've read that they forbid Catholics from becoming Masons, but Masons are non-denominational, and have Catholic members.

"Freemasonry is evil!" makes about as much sense as saying "All Catholics are pedophiles."

Canon Law technically forbids Catholics to join any "secret" society, using the concepts noted below in defining "secret."

Archbishop Katzer in a Pastoral (20 Jan., 1895) says: "The Catholic Church has declared that she considers those societies illicit and forbidden which (1) unite their members for the purpose of conspiring against the State or Church; (2) demand the observance of secrecy to such an extent that it must be maintained even before the rightful ecclesiastical authority; (3) exact an oath from their members or a promise of blind and absolute obedience; (4) make use of a ritual and ceremonies that constitute them sects."

The anti-masonic stance of the church was centered on points 2-4. This stance was also enhanced by certain Masonic documents that were construed to mean that Masonic societies (particularly those in revolutionary era France) encouraged, or at least condoned, atheism (a stance which most Masons, as far as I know, would deny).

I know of no recent instances wherein the Church has pursued excommunication against Catholics involved in masonry.

While I follow the dictates of HMC, like Red Harvest, I have trouble seeing the "evil" in a your average batch of Shriners.

Seamus

[solypsist]

the good news is that this group hasn't been in the news for anything bad (unlike the boy scouts, if you know what i mean). they seem pretty legit.

i did find a lot of themes similar to what you are asking, like this one, which you've probably already seen:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.m...19da2ab36a71d7 (however, if you keep searching this group, you will find some people who aren't very proud of being members)

i've got some corporate-account computer engines working on it, and if it turns out there's anything to worry about, will post it.