The Legions

[7ED]

I've frequented this forum for quite a while but i've always been too lazy to get an account. A long while ago i saw a screenshot of a Roman Legionary with the Lorica Segmenta, circa 100 AD, extremely detailed model, and since EB isn't using it anymore, could some kind soul please release it?

[khelvan]

Prometheus made it, and he will be releasing it with his mod, Res Gestae.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I've frequented this forum for quite a while but i've always been too lazy to get an account. A long while ago i saw a screenshot of a Roman Legionary with the Lorica Segmenta, circa 100 AD, extremely detailed model, and since EB isn't using it anymore, could some kind soul please release it?

In fact, I think he released it for the community a while back. I believe it was available at TWC's download area. Make a search for it.

[Ergion]

I think is that one:

http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=486

http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/file_pics/LEGIONE.jpg

[Wardo]

That Legionarie looks ALOT better than any chainmail (replace with roman name) I've EVER seen, if I were a Roman Emperor, or even an influencial member of the Senate, I would dedicate my life to implement the segmentata as the standard armor of the Roman Legions out of sheer beauty!!!

Seriously, what is more important than the way your Army looks?! Especially if you are a Xenophobe and consider your enemies "inferior", you don't want to dress like them do you?! Every bastard in this land has a friggin chain-mail, for the glory of Rome, let us get rid of this pathetic imported piece of junk and become UNIQUE!

Ok, sorry about that, back to the real world, but the point remains, show me a soldier that looks as good as that but with a chainmail instead...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

...I prefer chainmail...

[7ED]

im pretty certain, that by the year of the 4 emperors and DEFINITELY by the time of Trajan, the segmenta was standard armor for the majority of the legions if not all (chainmail was never really phased out). A shame its outside EBs timeframe..

and thanks for the link, but i find that ferres' model actually looks a bit better. It lacks the detail near the neck, but it adds detail in other places, and the color is a lot better.

[7ED]

Oh um, one question, for the historians of EB, im not making a snide comment or anything like this, im truly curious. In the Roman preview, both the reenlisted veterans and the praetorian cohorts wear capes, could someone tell me whether this was actual combat panapoly? I was under the impression that when on campaign, both the veterans of the late republic and the praetorians were equipped in the exact same way and all parade dress decorations such as the praetorian plumes removed. (cept the praetorians used the old republican ovular scutum instead of the rectangular one) so uh, the capes?!

[metatron]

I can't explain the capes (which I think are military cloaks, but why in battle?).

As for the Praetorians, besides having the oval scutum, there should be the scorpion on their designs (well, it's not critical, but I like it), around the upper and lower corners. As for the Imperial Cohorts, I'm a bit dissapointed at the lack of any Capricorn, and I raise an eyebrow at the colors (which, IMO, should basically be white (or at the very most, red) tunics for most late republican/early principate units) and the armor for the antesignani.

Now that I think about it, is that all there is for the cavalry? It seems with the two that it jumps over a period.

[the_handsome_viking]

That Legionarie looks ALOT better than any chainmail (replace with roman name) I've EVER seen, if I were a Roman Emperor, or even an influencial member of the Senate, I would dedicate my life to implement the segmentata as the standard armor of the Roman Legions out of sheer beauty!!!

Seriously, what is more important than the way your Army looks?! Especially if you are a Xenophobe and consider your enemies "inferior", you don't want to dress like them do you?! Every bastard in this land has a friggin chain-mail, for the glory of Rome, let us get rid of this pathetic imported piece of junk and become UNIQUE!

Ok, sorry about that, back to the real world, but the point remains, show me a soldier that looks as good as that but with a chainmail instead...

Actually interestingly enough, putting a really good looking army into battle could be an effective psychological warfare tactic.

imagine being some scabby looking guy with a wicker sheild and fur pants, looking at this highly organized mass of armor clad dudes with flowing red capes and big red mohawk things on their helmets, that would be pretty intimidating.

warfare is bascially just a big excuse to wear fancy clothes.

think waffen ss or the wehrmacht.

[Forgus]

Actually interestingly enough, putting a really good looking army into battle could be an effective psychological warfare tactic.

imagine being some scabby looking guy with a wicker sheild and fur pants, looking at this highly organized mass of armor clad dudes with flowing red capes and big red mohawk things on their helmets, that would be pretty intimidating.

warfare is bascially just a big excuse to wear fancy clothes.

think waffen ss or the wehrmacht.

Laibach comes into my mind: "...we are not nazis or anything... they have done horrible things and brought misery for the whole of Europe... But honestly who can say that an SS officers' uniform is not a beautiful outfit from a merely esthetical point of view?"

[econ21]

Now that I think about it, is that all there is for the cavalry? It seems with the two that it jumps over a period.

I'm not sure the previews reveal all the units for a faction. In the teaser "guess the faction" thread, an Italian allied heavy cavalry unit has been revealed that the Romans hopefully can recruit as allies or auxiliaries.

[cunctator]

As for the Praetorians, besides having the oval scutum, there should be the scorpion on their designs (well, it's not critical, but I like it), around the upper and lower corners.

Now that I think about it, is that all there is for the cavalry? It seems with the two that it jumps over a period.

The scorpion was Tiberius birth sign and not adopted as enblem of the praetorian guard unti his reign.

There will quiet a lot roman cavalry units, they were just not ready for the preview.

[Dux Corvanus]

Actually, since around 200 AD or a bit later, lorica segmentata started to disappear from Roman soldier outfit. The reason is that it was a very complex, hard to maintain piece of armor. The tin joints and brochures that held it together were fragile and hard to use, and had to be replaced very often. All in all, the lorica segmentata was a good, resistant, flexible and light armor, but maintenance issues adviced the reintroduction of chainmail.

[jerby]

the lorica hamata was easier in maintenance?
is it me, or do you have it backwards?

Think about how many rings go in a chainmail shirt, now count the pieces in segmata armor...Yup, it was far faster to produce as well as easier to repair, and the protection it offered wasn't much worse (it was better against somethings in fact). Still, despite what TV tells us the hamata clad legionaire was the more common one, was used for a longer period of time, and was the one who fought in most of Rome's conquests (after the reforms of Marius).

so...i'm confused...

[Dux Corvanus]

Lorica segmentata was easier to produce and repair. But... it was much less durable. So, unlike chainmails, it had to be repaired very often, even in non-combat situations. The fault was not of the iron armor parts themselves, but of the tin-made joints.

Lorica segmentata was fit to body with a complex system of feeble hinges, locks, joints, buckles and belt-straps, all made in a less-than-resistant tin. That was lorica segmentata's Achilles heel.

In fact, there are very few examples of well-preserved lorica segmentata: iron parts mostly disappeared due to corrosion. Often, all that's left is the tin parts. Thanks to them we can reproduce lorica segmentata as it was. But they've found also lots and lots of those tin parts detached from their original lorica. They were broken or deformated parts that had to be replaced. It was so common an operation that they were mass-produced.

So, despite its advantages, its unpractical maintenance made lorica segmentata lose his preeminence to the good ol' chainmail, which was harder to repair, but you had not to do it constantly, and it was easier to wear.

[jerby]

thanks for clearing that up!

[metatron]

The scorpion was Tiberius birth sign and not adopted as enblem of the praetorian guard unti his reign.

There will quiet a lot roman cavalry units, they were just not ready for the preview.

Well, that makes sense.

[Steppe Merc]

Segmented armor was also used by the Parthians, particullary on the legs and arms.

[7ED]

uh.. so the capes?

[Lvcivs Asiarvm]

Those are beutiful skins however saddly I don't know about the capes in contemporary sculpture and art of this period soldier in battle often wore capes however....... art is for beuty rather than an realism

However, if I were to truly make a skin for realism I wouldn't give the skins capes rather I'll display them without their capes. However if I were to just make a mod I would go with the capes 'cause they're so stylish

[eadingas]

warfare is bascially just a big excuse to wear fancy clothes.

Now that is something worth putting in my sig :) (after a little modification)

[pezhetairoi]

Not 'the warfare', eadingas, it's just 'warfare'. ;)