Aoe Iii!

**Mouzafphaerre** · 10-22-2005, 19:47

Originally Posted by Kraxis

I wouldn't say that...

AOE is enjoyable in its own little world. It is by far one of the best resourcegathering games there is. It complexity compared to similar games makes it refreshing. You can of course, like every other game of that type, rush or mass troops. But if you choose to do neither it can be fun.

It shouldn't be compared to the TW games... Which indeed are better.

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Of the AOE class of games, I liked Cossacks pretty much but the resource management/upkeep thingie made it simply unplayable. Haven't tried the II yet.
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**Husar** · 10-22-2005, 22:53

I really liked Cossacks, and have Cossacks 2 as well, but 2 is a huge step back in my opinion.
You have to give fire commands to every formation, you can build soldiers way too fast, the AI likes to rush you early, it´s somehow hectic and so on.
The worst was when I tried to play MP against my friend and noone could really win because in the time I could send a new formation to the front, he had already built 2 or 3 new ones and the other way around. Besides that it was slow on machines with less than 1GB of RAM, this got adressed(to some degree) in the first patch, but I didn´t really like the game and think it had some more potential, but I haven´t played it anymore after one or two weeks...

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 10-23-2005, 00:34

RTS's are what you get when you combine high strategy with a first-person-shooter.

Not to say that RTS can't be fun. Starcraft was and is an awesome game, and one of the defining RTS's.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 10-23-2005, 05:36

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Starcraft and C&C were classics.

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**NodachiSam** · 10-23-2005, 05:49

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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Starcraft and C&C were classics.

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Yea, the C&C games were pretty good though I don't know about anything after Tiberian Sun. Red Alert was one of my favourite games. I didn't mean to sound so hard on RTS in my earlier post. They have their charms.

**NodachiSam** · 10-23-2005, 05:36

I just spent like four hours trying to get the AOE III trial version to install and after playing it for 30 to 60 minutes I uninstalled it. I was incredibly dissapointed with it. It sure is pretty, but it is still an AOE game. I bought and played all the AOE games up to Age of mythology (though I didn't get its addon) before I tried STW. It can't hold a candle up to a TW game in enjoyability.

AOE is just a click fest. There is little tactical strategy and I don't think I could go back to a RTS game now. There is no morale (which is huge), no elevation is considered (as far as I can tell), exhaustion isn't considered, formations arn't considered. Certain troops are better at killing other troops but that is it.

I remember the first AOE being advertised with "build you empire!" or something like that but it clearly isn't. You get no sense of building a society or political empire. There is no sense that your actions would be historically relevant. It is a real shame. I don't think they are willing to really experiment with the title since it has been so successful either. The total war games aren't perfect but they are the best I've found. Clearly a major aspect of the game will be war (the battles are the best I've seen), but I wish there was more to do in peacetime and the strategy map had more depth. More diplomatic complexity and realism would also help a lot. RTW was a definite improvement but it could go much further. Constant war can get tedious.

I keep saying it, my ideal game would be some mix between TW and the civ games which had frustratingly limited combat. It, and to some extent the TW games, simplify historicalness in the extreme that could only be remedied by much more complex simulations of the evolution that political units and societies experience. Obviously they are just games but America showing up in the stone age as an independant society puts extreme stress on my suspension of disbelief.

Like Arcanum said, it isn't really fair to compare the two; they are different animals. Obviously a lot of people enjoy RTS.

**hellenes** · 10-23-2005, 10:38

Originally Posted by NodachiSam

I just spent like four hours trying to get the AOE III trial version to install and after playing it for 30 to 60 minutes I uninstalled it. I was incredibly dissapointed with it. It sure is pretty, but it is still an AOE game. I bought and played all the AOE games up to Age of mythology (though I didn't get its addon) before I tried STW. It can't hold a candle up to a TW game in enjoyability.

AOE is just a click fest. There is little tactical strategy and I don't think I could go back to a RTS game now. There is no morale (which is huge), no elevation is considered (as far as I can tell), exhaustion isn't considered, formations arn't considered. Certain troops are better at killing other troops but that is it.

I remember the first AOE being advertised with "build you empire!" or something like that but it clearly isn't. You get no sense of building a society or political empire. There is no sense that your actions would be historically relevant. It is a real shame. I don't think they are willing to really experiment with the title since it has been so successful either. The total war games aren't perfect but they are the best I've found. Clearly a major aspect of the game will be war (the battles are the best I've seen), but I wish there was more to do in peacetime and the strategy map had more depth. More diplomatic complexity and realism would also help a lot. RTW was a definite improvement but it could go much further. Constant war can get tedious.

I keep saying it, my ideal game would be some mix between TW and the civ games which had frustratingly limited combat. It, and to some extent the TW games, simplify historicalness in the extreme that could only be remedied by much more complex simulations of the evolution that political units and societies experience. Obviously they are just games but America showing up in the stone age as an independant society puts extreme stress on my suspension of disbelief.

Like Arcanum said, it isn't really fair to compare the two; they are different animals. Obviously a lot of people enjoy RTS.

Well I agree with your first points BUT if people advertise RTW as an RTS and AoEIII as an RTS they clearly compete. Its just imo whole DOGMA of a huge part of gamers that are trapped in their dreamworld thinking that they build an empire (yep with building same size as people and couple of town centers...) whilst they play the pinnacle of dumped down warfare...

Hellenes

**NodachiSam** · 10-24-2005, 05:45

Originally Posted by hellenes

Well I agree with your first points BUT if people advertise RTW as an RTS and AoEIII as an RTS they clearly compete. Its just imo whole DOGMA of a huge part of gamers that are trapped in their dreamworld thinking that they build an empire (yep with building same size as people and couple of town centers...) whilst they play the pinnacle of dumped down warfare...

Hellenes

I've always considered the TW games to be turn based because of the strategic map part of it. If you do compare them, I agree there is no competition.

**screwtype** · 10-24-2005, 12:34

Originally Posted by NodachiSam

I just spent like four hours trying to get the AOE III trial version to install and after playing it for 30 to 60 minutes I uninstalled it. I was incredibly dissapointed with it. It sure is pretty, but it is still an AOE game. I bought and played all the AOE games up to Age of mythology (though I didn't get its addon) before I tried STW. It can't hold a candle up to a TW game in enjoyability.

AOE is just a click fest.

I was asking myself whether my next game was going to be Civ IV or AoE III. The only AoE title I've played is the first one, I didn't like it a whole lot but there have been heaps of other titles in the series since.

So I just installed the demo and played for a couple of hours tonight and I have to agree. It's a total clickfest. Even on the "Easy" setting it's really hard, the AI just seems to send endless numbers of troops your way, there's no way to really organize your troops, they don't seem able to even use walls you build, but the thing I hate most about it is the speed, you have to stay busy busy busy or you get trounced by the AI, and there doesn't seem to be a way to slow the pace of the game down either.

Not only that, but it's amazing how little the game has moved on in concept since the original. In fact, I have to say I enjoyed the original better! It's a bit more controllable than this mess.

**screwtype** · 10-25-2005, 04:52

After a few more hours playing the demo I've changed my mind to a degree. There *is* a bit of depth to the game - I think.

It would partly depend on what keyboard commands are available to control your different military units. If there are keys to select the different types of military units, it would be an improvement.

But there are still some astonishing omissions in the game. I can't *believe* that the only way of selecting multiple units with the mouse is to pull a rectangle around them - it hasn't changed from the original game! It's an incredibly clumsy method, making it virtually impossible to select just the units you want without including some unwanted units.

I mean, at least they could give you a rotational rectangle. Or better still, why can't you just hold down the mouse button and draw around the units you want? Or select a number of points around which your selection shape will be completed? Would that really make it too complicated?

A pause button, where you can set commands for your units with the game frozen, as in RTW, would be a great feature too, for those of us who like to plan a bit. IMO that is a very serious omission in a game of this type, especially after so many instalments.

On the plus side, there's an option to slow the pace of the game in "skirmish" mode. But they really need one in the campaign too, and there isn't one in the demo. I wouldn't much fancy playing through an entire campaign at the hectic pace of the default setting.

I also couldn't understand the military unit stats, it would be nice if they'd included a bit more info.

Anyhow, there are lots of different military units, and you can sorta organize them with some frantic clicking. But with just a couple of the most basic improvements, this game could be so much more fun. Why haven't they made them after all this time?

**NodachiSam** · 10-26-2005, 00:51

Well, they actually have had groups that you can create and select using control and the number keys since possibly the earliest game. I think you can also press shift or something to add selections to what you've already selected. Also, if you double click on a unit all units of that type on screen are selected so it isn't so bad.

I don't think that is enough to save my own interest in the title though. I think they really are scarred to take any risks with the basics of the game because they have been so successful with it. Maybe they could make some sort of offshoot of the game that sort of experiments with the nature of the game. They could leave the click fest rushed feeling to something more strategic and focussing on things other than war so that you can sort of pretend you are building a society. AOE is all about resource managment really.