Aoe Iii!

**AquaLurker** · 11-09-2005, 11:02

Don't worry, there are plenty of 12 yrs old in RTW MP too.

You join their game,
You ask for rules,
Kid remains mute,
Next thing you know when the game starts,
He call you a cheating fag...

I like RTW and RTS games(especially starcraft), I have to disagree that RTS is simply click feast(maybe some bad titles but not starcraft). I can't say I am good with RTS but I have seen really good starcraft players doing their thing and totally owned his opponents, it was a beautiful.

IMO RTW is a potentially good MP game but it is screwed with crazy lag 8 out of 10 games. While RTS(like starcraft and AOE2) still owned RTW in MP because of the smooth gameplay and like some other poster said, more grippping.

In the end it is just a matter of how well the game is designed not the genre.

**Kraxis** · 11-09-2005, 21:49

Starcraft is indeed posssibly the best RTS out there. It is still being played by more than 30k at any given moment on the European server...

I lovethe ample opportunities for reverses in battles, you are never truly out for the count if you survive the first few minutes if you are rushed.
I was a rather good SC player in my day, and it was amazing how many strategies that were thought up, and how much attention was put into using the terrain to one's advantage.

In a very good 4v4 battle I had at a LAN party I got rushed early on, and you simply can't withstand four players, that is impossible. So I died... Jusu about as one of my probes (Protoss) managed to escape... A New Hope.

I ended up in a place where there was lots of gas but little minerals. What did I do? I went for for Dark Archons. It was brilliant! I arrived just in the nick of time to save my fellows (who had survived). One Terran attacked with a mass of Battlecruisers, and since I was the only Protoss on my team he considered them safe (thought they had killed me). Bam bam bam... and I had captured 10 and Feedbacked another 7, which my captured Battlecruisers then obliterated with ease.
To hear the loud "NOOOO" from the other side ofthe room was about the most beautiful I have heard when playing computer.

**hellenes** · 11-10-2005, 14:38

Originally Posted by AquaLurker

Don't worry, there are plenty of 12 yrs old in RTW MP too.

You join their game,
You ask for rules,
Kid remains mute,
Next thing you know when the game starts,
He call you a cheating fag...

I like RTW and RTS games(especially starcraft), I have to disagree that RTS is simply click feast(maybe some bad titles but not starcraft). I can't say I am good with RTS but I have seen really good starcraft players doing their thing and totally owned his opponents, it was a beautiful.

IMO RTW is a potentially good MP game but it is screwed with crazy lag 8 out of 10 games. While RTS(like starcraft and AOE2) still owned RTW in MP because of the smooth gameplay and like some other poster said, more grippping.

In the end it is just a matter of how well the game is designed not the genre.

Well the presence of 12 years olds isnt the genres fault but the milking publishers...
Starcraft non clickfest?
Have you ever seen a GOOD Starcraft player?
The build order doesnt need to be memorized?
What about zerg rush?
Its a well known fact that if a group decides that one thing is good many follow...pure mass psychology, in Greece many doesnt even know that RTW exists they concieve basebuilding clickfests as what the real strategy is all about...
Ill repeat myself once more:
"As I explained the etymology of the word STRATEGY, its clear that the whole RT"S" pattern was drawn on a VERY simplified (dumped down) version of reality of warfare:

Resource collection, hmmm right whats the mania about it? Did any ancient/modern general bothered with economics or where the moneys coming from? Isnt it very nice and fun to have your little peasants gather some gold/wood/anything? If youre 12 or have been imposed a 12 years old's design... Why the TAXATION, the TROOP ACTUAL UPKEEP and trade economics are absent? Wait the genre is designed for 12 years olds...that explains all.

Hit points bar: Well its the rigid line between the TW (and some other wargames) and the RT"S" crowd. Simplified and utterly needed because of the overfocus on scirmish/gang fights of 20-50 INDIVIDUALS (my next point) looks IMO quite funny since we all know that people dont have green liquid in them (except maybe orcs?)...

Gang wars: Yep the scale of warfare is so extreme that its like looking on a globe with 50cm diameter and trying to find your home village of 200 residents. Now one may say that well 1 soldier represents 1000 but the question that arises is: why in TW series they achieved 1 soldier to represent just 10? Yes you control 20 UNITS but each soldier's experiense, and stats are calculated on indiviual basis and in that time the armies operated in units not just some UNORGANISED mob (in some cases they did but they werent armies-->Horde formation) and the scale in TW is dictated by hardware demands more than by developing it. While the gang wars RT"S"es put all their effort on woo graphics.

Morale: The garlic of the RT"S" vampires. All try to avoid it at all cost or compromise in a way (WH40k's excuse of a morale system the soldiers just losing some fighting abilities NOT fleening automatically). Why they do that? Is that strategy? AoEIII doesnt have it while we all know that morale was the BASIS of all warfare (spartan anyone?) and disciplined armies conquered the world.

Basebuilding: There are two exptremely simplified parts of the whole army creation: The scale. When the barracks that a soldier was supposed to be training in are the same height as he is its clearly shows the pattern and the target audience of such games (compare this https://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?...apimage0jx.png
to this https://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?...pimage22lu.png

The whole notion of building at the same scale and time scale as the "battles" unfold. We all know that the building construction takes MONTHS (if not years) and that the battles take minutes and hours, now its clear how this was simplified but if you far from reality you cannot recreate strategic thought.

Whatever I say however the fact that basebuilding shortcut memorising clickfest RT"S"es will outsell wargames remains. Like the FIFA outsells the only soccer emulator Pro Evolution Soccer every year with EA's same trivial tennis like gameplay."

Hellenes

**GoreBag** · 11-10-2005, 22:31

I got AoE III the other day and I'm rather enjoying it.

**Kraxis** · 11-11-2005, 04:19

Starcraft IS a clickfest, but being a good clicker won't ensure victory against one who isn't. You need more than fast fingers (trust me you need pretty fast fingers in MP MTW).
And 6-pools are easy enough to counter. The problem is just that people of inequal experience meet and the experienced player uses a rush, then inexperienced playerwill go all "BROKE BROKE BROKE", but if he had played as much as the other guy he could have stopped it, besides unless it is small map the rush is going to be slowed hugely by the need to scout, giving even a player that doesn't prepared for a rush time to respond to it. And on small maps you have to expect a rush, and when you do it you can easily respond to it.
Its all about applying the right ideas. And a rush repulsed is going to pay back onto the rusher with great damage.

**AquaLurker** · 11-12-2005, 01:01

hellenes I am not sure why you hate RTS so much but you must remember that RTS or "TW series" are all games and in no way reflect realistic battles, infact RTW may seem close(really it is not) but will never be realistic enough.

As a "game genre", RTS games have their charm and fun and "TW series" has it own. I can tell you I seen players in starcraft really skill full in terms of tactics and the tide of the game are always shifting when you see good players do their thing, like what Kraxis. Even the TW games itself is a click feast and there are times the lag aid me in some games because I am slow lol.

Just for the record I have stopped playing TW campaigns, TW games may have a good campaign games IMO better than most RTS campaigns, but like the RTS games in become a drag because the battle AI is yet to meet a human player challenge, the only challenge they give is the campaign AI with its seemingly endless hordes and stacks of armies, they just make me sick of fighting battles and the only time a player would lose is when his army is total exhausted by the relentless & endless hordes.

**solypsist** · 11-16-2005, 22:32

so who do u have to play to get the samurai? i see one in the opening vid but don't know who to use to unlock - i assume they appear as mercenary cards. i figure it's either the portuguese or the dutch, but don't feel like playing the wrong faction to find out.