ATHEIST POPE!!! (After Inquisition)

[Isvahsam]

Well, if i am play a catholic faction, i always use the inqusition weapon as a natural (religious) killer. And i use the grand-inquisitors as assasins, even better them. Because the assasins can be caught easily but they can hardly be killed by an assasin. And they do (inqusite) for the church :D
Anyway, while i am playing as Sicillians, i had a great (8 star) grand-inqusitior, he had killed so many generals and kings. Even i erased the Aragon royal family with him and aragons were eliminated. And i wonder if i could use him to his boss (the Pope). I wonder if a member of the church could kill the boss (!) of the church. As we know that, after you had put him on a general, there are two choices, he could be killed or live. But if he's alive, he could get a vice or virtue. After an inquistion sometimes, they will be too religious (gaining the vices which increases the piety) that you can't kill him with an inquisition. But sometimes they could get the bad vices (being like an atheist which deletes all piety point :) ).
Anyway after this explanation, i put my grand-inquisitor on the pope, and he couldn't be killled. I say "normal ". After i put him on him several times, he got the piety decreaser vices. i say "what? " And at the end he got the atheist virtue. I say ".uck! " But how? How can a Pope be atheist? I asked these questions many times to myself. But no answer, and i thought it could be just a bug of the game. And after one or two turns, the Pope (which always had wanted the catholics start a crusades against to me) buried on the cross which makes me feel good and laugh :)).
Thanks for your replies for now.

[Ciaran]

Well, back then believing in God wasn´t exactly a prerequisite for a clerical career, some would even say it was a hindrance

[Vladimir]

Have you heard of the Pope that gave birth? A little before our time frame but a good story. Medieval Total War is the name of the game, not Diplomacy, Inquisition: The life and times of Joan of Arc, or anything else. Consider it in that context.

[Matty]

This is why the draft pope sits on a stool with a hole in the seat so that a cardinal can discretely check whether he's carrying the required 'meat and two veg'. I doubt they do that these days somehow.

[Isvahsam]

Hey, i just want inquisite the game (and Pope :) ) that if this point was thought or passed away by the Creative Assembly. As it seems, this point was not thought in this game which is the the age of the religious faith is important! Remember this! This period is about stunnig faith, and .... These are the early era description of the game. Religion is a big matter in this age. And history is full with the scandals deal with the religion. Everyone knows what church has done in the medieval times. And the worst is the inquisition as everyone knows. Anyway, i dont want mention about the history but here it is.

[cegorach]

[QUOTE=Vladimir]Have you heard of the Pope that gave birth?



Medieval time urban legend, it never happened.

Besides its is only a game

[Vladimir]

[QUOTE=cegorach1]

Have you heard of the Pope that gave birth?



Medieval time urban legend, it never happened.

Besides its is only a game

Ya, right. Next you'll say aliens didn't help build the pyramids.

[NodachiSam]

Yep, it means you're cracking him. I have had a lot of atheist popes in my current game. Such as this fellow. His extreme rationality doesn't improve his diplomatic performance though. They are never elected like that BTW. Popes have always served till death parts them with their station so I imagine it would be awkward for everyone involved.

[AntiochusIII]

Wow. I'm sure saint Antonio I will convince me to his faith with his rationality.

And Isvahsam, I presume you do realize you can torch a pope on a crucifix (how ironic) with your inquisitors, right? It's very, very hard (after all, he's the pope) but possible. And satisfying. ~ It also ends excommunications, as well. Hence a very useful tactic as the HRE to keep the papacy in line for centuries to come.

[Suraknar]

What Year is BI set to?

[EatYerGreens]

Yep, it means you're cracking him. I have had a lot of atheist popes in my current game. Such as this fellow.

At first I thought that if an inquisitor failed to burn the victim at the first attempt then you'd blown your chances but advice gained from the forum suggested it was worth it to keep trying. I later found that some generals would burn on the second attempt, so it pays to be persistent.

I like your screenie but I now have one of my own, which I really should post up.

My Inqui is only 5* (a pair of them actually), so nowhere near as effective as Isvahsam's one. However, after two Inquisitions and two ceasfire requests per turn, for 4 or five turns, he somehow contrived to be both Athiest and Born Again.

Work that one out LOL

[amazon77]

Have you heard of the Pope that gave birth? A little before our time frame but a good story. Medieval Total War is the name of the game, not Diplomacy, Inquisition: The life and times of Joan of Arc, or anything else. Consider it in that context.

you 're talking about the supposed pope Joanna, however this was a legend to indicate how much influence some women had on the corrupted popes of the time. She didn't really exist, as a pope but as a lover of one.

[Patron]

I LOLed at "a world ruled by the devout and faithful"

[HopAlongBunny]

Atheist popes i've seen. Latest campaign produced a new heresy though; Pope is quite clearly married_has the wedding ring on his portrait

[bretwalda]

Screeenshot pleeeease!!! :)

Edit: This is my 0.5 thousandth post!!!

[Isvahsam]

Yea i agree to EatYearGreen, in my latest campaign, Pope became "Atheist" and then "Born Again". It may be a bug again, or the reality that must be done in it. And this prevents us to save from excommunication. I'm usin the inquisitors for this reason. But after he got "Born Again" and his piety points increases, he forgot his "Atheist"ness. And it will be impossible to kill. By the way i want to ask this: How can i person got opposite vice&virtue. My general had got "Magnificient Steward" then after some time he got "Bad Steward". How? Does the vice&virtue list show the chronogical things that he has lived? I mean first he became a good steward then he became bad one. So the last vice&virtue show the current activity (habbit) of him, i guess.

[Ludens]

Yea i agree to EatYearGreen, in my latest campaign, Pope became "Atheist" and then "Born Again". It may be a bug again, or the reality that must be done in it. And this prevents us to save from excommunication. I'm usin the inquisitors for this reason. But after he got "Born Again" and his piety points increases, he forgot his "Atheist"ness. And it will be impossible to kill. By the way i want to ask this: How can i person got opposite vice&virtue. My general had got "Magnificient Steward" then after some time he got "Bad Steward". How? Does the vice&virtue list show the chronogical things that he has lived? I mean first he became a good steward then he became bad one. So the last vice&virtue show the current activity (habbit) of him, i guess.

Once you acquire a vice, there is no getting rid of it. However, you can compensate for it by acquiring the opposing virtue (or vica versa). This does lead to rather silly situations like cowards that are brave beyond belief or, more frequently, reborn atheists.

However, the latter is not that silly. The description of reborn merely says that the man acts as if he is a repentant sinner, not that he really is one. I would visit the church often too, if it ment I could keep out of the inquisition's clutches. Remember that both V&V's can be brought about by an inquisitor.

[EatYerGreens]

I think the thing with the directly contradictory V&V's is just proof that they are just randomly dished out, with no cross-check routine in the code to prevent such bizarre combinations.

Supposedly, things the player does during the game can and do influence what V&V's are issued to their generals but the AI's generals also get them, which does leave me wondering what causes what, if not randomness.

Check out the recent "Alcoholic Almohads" thread for further examples of out-of-character V&V absurdities.

[Grond]

Interesting. I had a French king I was attempting to burn and he eventually succumbed to pressure and went athiest (-8) + born again. He had zero piety.

But none of the level 5 wrecking crew inquisitors could burn him. I tried, many, many times. I kept getting 0% no matter how good the inquisitor was. Bug? Read wrong? Something else?

[EatYerGreens]

I had a pair of 5* Inquisitors doing over the Pope every year for more than a decade, with 0% chance every time. They turned him into the Born Again Atheist but he died of old age before they could fry him. This, seemingly, in spite of high zeal rating in Papal States, all the while.

I have noticed that Faction leaders get similar zero readings, regardless of piety rating or the zeal of the province they are in. Heirs get a very low percentage and high-star generals are similarly well protected.

I think it's similar to assassin success ratings, where the faction leader and heirs get a level of automatic protection ('well guarded') and high-star generals have a tendency to accumulate a personal valour level which the assassin probably cannot match. (Don't just compare a general's command stars with the assassin's valour stars, look at his unit's valour as well. If that's their average valour, then have a guess at the general's personal valour score and factor that into the equation too. Don't forget that, for each pair of command stars, he gets +1 valour boost on top).

For inquisitions in general, the best targets for newbie Inquisitors are, as was stated previously, your own low-piety unit leaders - no fear of him getting assassinated if your home territories are properly secured against intruders.

Best odds are given on zero-piety unit leaders. It's then 1,2,4,8,16 victims to get them to five stars but 4 'home' victims and three stars should give them good survival odds abroad and taking out some 3 or 4 star enemy generals will advance them up the valour ladder that bit faster because a 4-star general is 'worth' the equivalent of 8 0-star victims.

Or that's my theory of how it works, anyway.

When the enemy stack leader has zero piety, the success rating is exactly the same as the level of zeal in the province. Each piety cross reduces the success percentage by quite a significant amount, to the point where even 90% zeal is of no assistance against a 9-piety general, with success percentage in single figures, as low as for an heir.

If necessary, you can allow the Inquisitor to preach for one or two years in the enemy province, to ramp up the zeal rating before beginning to carry out attacks on local generals but try not to leave them preaching for too long. As soon as it gets 'too high' and they begin burning the local population, the zeal takes a sudden drop, likely to below where it was when you started. This is all too easy to do when you're preoccupied with military aspects of your campaign and your inquisitor is off in some part of the map away from what's holding your attention.

[Yoyoma1910]

Don't you all know that every good Catholic, such as myself, is really an athiest at heart? Just don't tell my priest.




I personally see nothing wronge with the constant changes of vices and virtues, I think it adds a more humanly realist element to the game. In reality, many people try to do good, but fall short, or sometimes stumble on to making good for themselves and becoming the darkhorse hero. In reality alot of people pick up hobbies or interests for periods of time, and later drop them and never want to touch them again. Or maybe they try so hard to do good, that they simply bust a gasket or turn to the bottle. It's not easy to run a provence full of illiterate peasnts, politic amongst back-stabbing nobility, and have to fight constant wars all across the known world.



Many Popes were really put there for political and not spiritual reasons, and some were quite cut throat politicians. I'm sure there have even been a few atheist's in there, even though some of them were well at hiding their disbelief.