Syria/Lebanon

[Tribesman]

I was trying to revive the thread from the time of the bombing and protests , but got bored of looking...
So , with the international inquiry out has anyone any thoughts on what (if anything) should be done next ?
A trial in the Leb seems to be out of the question due to any reasons .
A trial at the International Court is being rejected .
Syria is refuting the findings of the investigation so no trial there .

[Adrian II]

Syria is refuting the findings of the investigation so no trial there.

I believe the Syrian Interior Minister has been handed a steep sentence. I say let's keep the pressure on them and see who else walks into a bus or falls out a window.

[Tribesman]

I believe the Syrian Interior Minister has been handed a steep sentence.
Do you mean the "suicide" ?
Neither of the two Syrian outlets I read seem to be available at the moment , and another I tried no longer has the english version available .
All the others in the mid-east/arab world I have viewed seem to be either following the official Syrian line or focusing on the "uncorroborated single source" .


Perhaps I should have included a ridiculing of Bush or Condis' statements to elicit more of a response to this subject .

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I don't know what exactly you're talking about, but on Syria/Lebanon.

Syria should leave lebanon, they're dictatorial impression of the free lands of Lebanon have gone on for too long and if they don't leave Lebanon soon we should give them a hand out...a highly explovsive hand that is.

[Ice]

.a highly explovsive hand that is.

[Strike For The South]

I don't know what exactly you're talking about, but on Syria/Lebanon.

Syria should leave lebanon, they're dictatorial impression of the free lands of Lebanon have gone on for too long and if they don't leave Lebanon soon we should give them a hand out...a highly explovsive hand that is.

well lets hope you can help them with that exsplosive hand

[Tribesman]

I don't know what exactly you're talking about, but on Syria/Lebanon.

That is abundantly clear .
Syria should leave lebanon

if they don't leave Lebanon soon we should give them a hand out
A great "victory" for the UN and international pressure getting Syria to end its occupation , did you miss it , its old news

It is the release of the UNs preliminary report on the international investigation into the assasination of the Lebanese ex-Prime minister .
Try reading the news once in a while , it may help .

Or you could listen to your President or Sectetary of State .
Both have addressed the issue several times in the past coupe of days .
If you want some in depth coverage try Al-Jazeera , they have at least 15 different articles from several perspectives on it since the report was released .

[Adrian II]

I don't know what exactly you're talking about, but on Syria/Lebanon. Syria should leave Lebanon

The problem is that Syria is supported by the Soviet Union. First things first; once we get Saddam out of Kuwait, Reagan can devote his attention to Syria.

[Geoffrey S]

Anyway, keep up the pressure on Syria; it doesn't strike me as a nation that can hold up to intense politcal pressure, and will fold at some point. The Interior Minister's 'suicide' may be an early indication of such a process.

[The Black Ship]

I hardly see Lebanon as a victory for the UN Don't the massed crowds of disaffected Lebanese nationals get any credit? How many UN officials led the crowds?

Anyhow, little Assad seems to be consolidating a powerbase, and I'd suspect more "suicides" in the weeks to come. That is, if he's as capable as daddy.

[Red Harvest]

A great "victory" for the UN and international pressure getting Syria to end its occupation , did you miss it , its old news

It is the release of the UNs preliminary report on the international investigation into the assasination of the Lebanese ex-Prime minister .
Try reading the news once in a while , it may help .

Or you could listen to your President or Sectetary of State .
Both have addressed the issue several times in the past coupe of days .
If you want some in depth coverage try Al-Jazeera , they have at least 15 different articles from several perspectives on it since the report was released .

I don't see that the U.N. really had much to do with Syria leaving Lebanon. The report came out after the fact, and merely confirmed what everyone already knew. Nobody can really claim a great victory since it has taken decades to get them out. The victory as such was that the Lebanese finally said "enough" and told the Syrians to leave.

Syria will likely be the next autocratic state to implode in the region. Something will cause the govt. to fail (internal or external) and it will be replaced by an explosion of long repressed movements and parties. Expect a decade or two of chaos when it happens.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I don't know what exactly you're talking about, but on Syria/Lebanon.

That is abundantly clear .
Syria should leave lebanon

if they don't leave Lebanon soon we should give them a hand out
A great "victory" for the UN and international pressure getting Syria to end its occupation , did you miss it , its old news

It is the release of the UNs preliminary report on the international investigation into the assasination of the Lebanese ex-Prime minister .
Try reading the news once in a while , it may help .

Or you could listen to your President or Sectetary of State .
Both have addressed the issue several times in the past coupe of days .
If you want some in depth coverage try Al-Jazeera , they have at least 15 different articles from several perspectives on it since the report was released .

I did miss it, sorry about that

[Adrian II]

I did miss it, sorry about that

Good sport! You do not mind if we take shots at you, in the same way you take shots at us now and then. Some of your posts are really better lately, more informed, well-composed, more mature. Who loves you, you little [banstick]?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Good sport! You do not mind if we take shots at you, in the same way you take shots at us now and then. Some of your posts are really better lately, more informed, well-composed, more mature. Who loves you, you little [banstick]?

I'm getting less lazy Becoming more like I am IRL. Plus, this place has become like a home, and yall like a family to me. I can't be nasty to family

[Tribesman]

I don't see that the U.N. really had much to do with Syria leaving Lebanon.
I hardly see Lebanon as a victory for the UN
Really , so it wasn't UN troops who went in as peacekeepers then to stop the slaughter , it wasn't UN sponsored peace talks and the withdrawel wasn't in compliance with UN resolutions arising from those peace talks .

And now it isn't a UN investigation , it isn't a UN preliminary report , and it isn't a UN meeting coming up to decide on the next steps to be taken .

Oh OK .

That must be why Bush and Condi never said that the UN meeting this coming tuesday is important and that it is vital that they act in strong , decisive and united fashion .

Nobody can really claim a great victory since it has taken decades to get them out.
Ah , but for how much of that time was the Syrian presence praised as a stabilising influence by the vast majority of the rest of the world and a very welcome event , it was only when they outstayed their welcome/usefulness and linked their withdrawel to other seperate issues that it became a problem .

The report came out after the fact, and merely confirmed what everyone already knew.
The report so far has "confirmed" very little . Much is so far uncorroborated evidence from a single "unreliable" source (or several single sources covering different events).
As for one seemingly concrete piece of evidence , there is a great deal of debate about who Mr.X is , many names from many different groups have been suggested , several of those groups have offered to turn the suggested Mr. X over , IF it is shown that the any of the names suggested is in fact their Mr.X .
So not much "confirmation" there .
A few keywords from the report to show that being ;"possible , likely , unlikely , unproven , unclear , uncorroborated , unreliable , unconfirmed , incomplete , questionable " :.
It is as such a work in progress , on tuesday we may see the next stage of the work begin .


Anyhow , has anyone noticed who Aoun is backing in the wake of the report ?
Curiouser and curiouser .... still thats the Leb for ya , very strange and ever shifting alliances .
Though the Druze leadership are keeping very quiet at the moment , I wonder which way they will jump , or if they just stay holed up in their fortress .

[Geoffrey S]

I'm getting less lazy Becoming more like I am IRL. Plus, this place has become like a home, and yall like a family to me. I can't be nasty to family

Ahhh, bless your cotton socks...

[Tribesman]

Though the Druze leadership are keeping very quiet at the moment , I wonder which way they will jump , or if they just stay holed up in their fortress .
To quote myself
Jumblatt has finally spoken from his family fortress , he talks of "suspicions" raised in the report about Syrias involvement , he speaks against sanctions being imposed on Syria and in favour of the international court(obviously he didn't listen to Condi ) , seems like he is really hedging his bets .

HizB'allah and the Future party have also made some interesting announcements as have the PFLP-GC .
Don't ya just love Lebanese politics , it is all so simple and straightforward

[Red Harvest]

I don't see that the U.N. really had much to do with Syria leaving Lebanon.
I hardly see Lebanon as a victory for the UN
Really , so it wasn't UN troops who went in as peacekeepers then to stop the slaughter , it wasn't UN sponsored peace talks and the withdrawel wasn't in compliance with UN resolutions arising from those peace talks .

And now it isn't a UN investigation , it isn't a UN preliminary report , and it isn't a UN meeting coming up to decide on the next steps to be taken .

No, it wasn't. Simple as that.

[Tribesman]

No, it wasn't. Simple as that.
Really , then what is false , in any way , with my statement you quoted ?
Feel free to pick it apart in the minutest detail if you wish .....or anything else I have written in this thread .......good luck trying .
Oh one mistake I made , first post third line .... should read "many" not "any" .

[Red Harvest]

No, it wasn't. Simple as that.
Really , then what is false , in any way , with my statement you quoted ?
Feel free to pick it apart in the minutest detail if you wish .....or anything else I have written in this thread .......good luck trying .
Oh one mistake I made , first post third line .... should read "many" not "any" .

Everything. Your statement ignores what really happened. It's listing the irrelevant (that didn't happen like you slanted it anyway.) What is relevant is that the Lebanese had enough and told them to go home.

So no, I'm not going to get into one of the back and forths with you. Your comment was a non-starter from the git go. You might as well have claimed that Bush or Israel did it. That is how relevant it was.

[Tribesman]

Everything. Your statement ignores what really happened. It's listing the irrelevant (that didn't happen like you slanted it anyway.) What is relevant is that the Lebanese had enough and told them to go home.
Really , then you certainly won't be interested into todays second UN report on Syria and Lebanon then .

You might as well have claimed that Bush or Israel did it.
Israel also complied with the same resolution (though of course Syria and Lebanon still dispute that ) , now all thats needed is for sevaral other nations to comply , plus the numerous groups within the Leb that have to comply , though in that case it is starting to go into reverse , with certain groups that had dissolved and disarmed , reforming and rearming .

See the problem with your statement .......No, it wasn't. Simple as that.
.......is untrue as nothing that I wrote was false and nothing in the situation is simple .
And everything is linked so everything is relevant .
Michael Aouns position is a prime example of that , how is it that a Lebanese leader who had to flee due to problems with Syria and her allies returned and now speaking in favour of Syria and her allies and aligning with them ?

Don't the massed crowds of disaffected Lebanese nationals get any credit?
Do you mean the mased anti-Syrian crowds or the massed pro-Syrian crowds ? Both were disaffected .

So no, I'm not going to get into one of the back and forths with you.
Thats a pity as it is an interesting subject , or to quote your leaders a "vital issue that needs addressing ".

Don't ya just love Lebanese politics , it is all so simple and straightforward

[Tribesman]

Aww , no takers ?
I wonder who Hariri thanked for ending the occupation in his address today?
do de do de do..... ah the UN ....his Syrian "brothers" who he looks forward to working with(strange didn't they alledgedly kill his dad) , oh and Chirac just for good measure .
Curiouser and curiouser

[Adrian II]

I wonder who Hariri thanked for ending the occupation in his address today? do de do de do..... ah the UN ....

Why do I get the feeling someone pwns this thread?

[Redleg]

I will let the audience guess the source of the following articles, so no link.

Syria: Mehlis report distorts truth

Monday 24 October 2005, 10:22 Makka Time, 7:22 GMT

Al-Assad has sent letters to UN Security Council members

Syria's top political body has rejected a UN report implicating Damascus in the killing of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq al-Hariri as a distortion of the truth.

And President Bashar al-Assad has sent letters to UN Security Council members explaining Syria's position, ahead of a briefing to the 15-nation body on Tuesday by the German judge who wrote the report, Syrian state television reported without giving details.

Detlev Mehlis's report is "full of contradictions and has distorted the truth and the facts," said the National Progressive Front, which groups eight parties headed by al-Assad's Baath.

"The parties trying to harm Syria will use the political issues contained in the report ... which is based on testimony from people who lack all credibility and known for their hostility to Syria," the group said in a statement.

Damascus has tried to cast doubts on the credibility of the UN report which implicates Syrian security officials in the murder since Mehlis released the results of his inquiry on Thursday at the United Nations in New York.

The Front accused the UN commission headed by Mehlis of having "distorted the testimony of Syrian officials" during interviews carried out last month.

It said Syria had cooperated in full with the commission, contrary to the report, which said it had cooperated only "to a limited degree" after initially hesitating to help.

"All this shows that the commission of inquiry was influenced by forces which want to harm Syria, weaken it and make unfounded accusations as part of political motives linked to the plans being hatched for the region."

And another

The leader of Lebanon's Druze community, Walid Jumblatt, has urged Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to cooperate with the UN investigation into Rafiq al-Hariri's assassination, saying it is necessary to establish the truth.

Giving his first reaction to the UN report on the former Lebanese prime minister's killing, Jumblatt also backed a call by Saad al-Hariri, Rafiq's son, for an international court to try those responsible for the 14 February assassination.

"I advise the Syrian president to cooperate with the investigation in order to uncover the truth," Jumblatt said at his family home in Mukhtara, 19km southeast of Beirut.

The UN report, which was released on Thursday night, accused Syria of cooperating with its investigation only "to a limited degree" and said Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa wrote a letter to the UN commission that contained false information.

Syrian officials rejected this on Saturday, saying their government had cooperated fully with the UN commission, and accused anti-Syrian witnesses of lying to the commission.

The report found that the bombing, which killed al-Hariri and 22 other people, could not have been carried out without the complicity of the Syrian and Lebanese intelligence services.

Jumblatt adopted a soft tone on Syria, telling reporters that the UN report contained "suspicions" not accusations, and said he rejected any international sanctions against the Syrian people.

Al-Mustaqbal reaction

A representative of the al-Mustaqbal (Future) party, Atif Majdalani, told Aljazeera that his party fully supported the holding of an international court in order to "protect the investigation and the truth behind this case".

Bashar al-Assad has been urged
to cooperate to get at the truth

"We are committed to know the truth. We will not bargain nor abandon the truth," he added.

Majdalani also said: "We believe that the Lebanese judicial authorities, which we trust, are now incapable of carrying out such an investigation and a fair trial."

He said the court should include Lebanese and foreign judges.

Commenting on the Hizb Allah movement's rejection of the idea of an international tribunal, Majdalani said: "We seek to achieve a genuine Lebanese reconciliation in all matters.

"Some members of al-Mustaqbal are holding current contacts with Hizb Allah and al-Amal party regarding this issue.

"Therefore, we can never take a step that threatens our national unity. On the contrary, we seek to strengthen our national unity."

Arrest
Majdalani said he had no details on the arrest of Mahmud Abd al-Al or the ban imposed on some high-ranking figures from travelling abroad.

Rafiq al-Hariri (R) and 22 others
were killed in a bomb blast

Abd al-Al, a member of the pro-Syrian al-Ahbash Muslim group, was detained in Beirut early on Saturday on orders from Lebanese magistrate Elias Eid.

"The international probe committee abides by confidentiality of investigation and names," he said.

"Mehlis's report has only revealed a clear part of a bigger entity."

He said there were many facts and names that had not been mentioned in the report.

"We are waiting for the results of the investigations, which will continue on 15 December and when more evidence and proof will be revealed," Majdalani said.

"I believe that matter of an international trial would not then be an internal problem," he added.

And so not to violate the copyright on the articles - here is the link

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...F082C443BB.htm

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...FF3FCA5CDE.htm