V&V's

[|OCS|Virus]

Hey, right now I'm playing as the Italians in early ear, and I'm trying to get my generals some good moral v&v's to counteract the "good runner" vice I got, by losing a single battle, I looked here:http://www.freewebs.com/totalwar85/ and found the names of them.

I have found some implied ways of making him a better leader, basicly make sure that the general unit is the one that fights first and the hardest every time he fights. But the only other virtue listed in the site I gave, is "most honest" and varying points of honesty, I'm wondering if there is a way to "make" or influnce him to get this bonus or if it is just luck of the draw? any further information on vices and virtues of any sort would be great. =} thanks.

[tigger_on_vrb]

I used to believe as you do that if you faithfully involve your general in every battle (in heroic deeds not just chasing routers) that he would naturally improve and it was the long, necessary process of building that super general. I was really annoyed yestaerday as I was playing a game as the English and had been training a royal knight general up on rebellions in Wales and Scotland. He had fought about 10 battles, winning every one and killing many, many men in every one - infact the last three battles he had fought on his own against 1 to 3 units. After the last battle he got the "not so bold" vice....... -2 morale for being a coward! He also never picked up any virtues. I am confused. I would also have been angry, was it not for the fact that the next turn I built a feudal sgt unit with 5* command and natural leader virtue.
Maybe the game felt guilty!!

[bretwalda]

(...)
After the last battle he got the "not so bold" vice....... -2 morale for being a coward! He also never picked up any virtues. I am confused. I would also have been angry, was it not for the fact that the next turn I built a feudal sgt unit with 5* command and natural leader virtue.
Maybe the game felt guilty!!

Well, as you see there is a random element...
The 5* general was probably a hero - check the date and the hero faq if the English get a hero in that year.

[Duke of Gloucester]

You pick up the not so bold vice by not engaging the enemy with your general during battles, so you can avoid it. I also think that if you get too many high starred generals, the game compensates by introducing vices to even things out, such as "always drunk" etc.

[bretwalda]

You pick up the not so bold vice by not engaging the enemy with your general during battles, so you can avoid it. I also think that if you get too many high starred generals, the game compensates by introducing vices to even things out, such as "always drunk" etc.

The way I do it is that I charge the general at an engaged and or routing enemy unit. I avoid enemy (or friendly for that matter) artilliery and I never go past the half of the field except if "the enemy are fleeing the field"

[tigger_on_vrb]

You pick up the not so bold vice by not engaging the enemy with your general during battles, so you can avoid it. I also think that if you get too many high starred generals, the game compensates by introducing vices to even things out, such as "always drunk" etc.

I thought that too, but as I said he was the only unit in the last 3 battles and won them all easily so he definetly was involved! I remember the last battle was against 100 celtic warriors and he kill about 40 and caught the rest as routers. It was immediately after that battle he got the vice, so presumably there must be a chance of getting it randomly. There wasnt a single battle before that where he didnt kill some people (I mean kill not just catching routers and I didnt execute any prisoners).
I have seen the not so bold vice in a general who only caught routers for a few battles so I was being very careful to avoid that.

[Ironside]

It could be random (although never seen that as random) or it could possibly been some extreme bad luck and your general never personally killed some in those battles. You can check the log files for that.

Or it's some other unknown trigger.

The only two non-random lines of getting morale improvements for generals, is to get the captured-line and natural leader line.

[bretwalda]

It could be random (although never seen that as random) or it could possibly been some extreme bad luck and your general never personally killed some in those battles. You can check the log files for that.

Or it's some other unknown trigger.

The only two non-random lines of getting morale improvements for generals, is to get the captured-line and natural leader line.

How do you get the natural leader line?

[Ironside]

How do you get the natural leader line?

Not sure exactly how, only gotten it once (it was in 2.01). My king went from natural leader to fine leader in one campagin, were I was using him as a frontline commander (I wanted him to gain good v&v and my hier were better, so no big loss if the king died). Was after 4-5 battles as attacker.

I'm guessing that the general killing the first enemy for a few battles could be a good testing method.

Never gotten a random upgrade on that line, so it has to be linked somehow.

[Procrustes]

This is a nice V&V link here:

http://www.mithyk.com/councilchambers/vnv.htm

The author included any tips he knew of regarding how to get the non-random ones.

Best,

[Weebeast]

Cool link :)

I don't think that "bad siege defender trait" can be achieved manually at all. I mean you need to lose in order to get that trait. Well, I've never seen an army lose and have its life spared. Defending troops can't rout during a castle siege. Don't you agree with me?

I feel like playing now lol. Try to get some cool v&v's.

[Ludens]

I don't think that "bad siege defender trait" can be achieved manually at all. I mean you need to lose in order to get that trait. Well, I've never seen an army lose and have its life spared. Defending troops can't rout during a castle siege. Don't you agree with me?

Actually, they can if they get out of the keep's wall, though you have to be very lucky to capture an enemy general this way. But I don't think the siege related vices can be acquired in the game. They are only there for the heroes.

[yesdachi]

Cool link :)

I don't think that "bad siege defender trait" can be achieved manually at all. I mean you need to lose in order to get that trait. Well, I've never seen an army lose and have its life spared. Defending troops can't rout during a castle siege. Don't you agree with me?

I feel like playing now lol. Try to get some cool v&v's.

How bout if they get ransomed?

[Ironside]

Auto-calc doesn't always kill all people in the keep. Been getting ransoms for the king from castle sieges that way.
Not sure if it's possible to get that vice though, as you need to lose badly to get it. 480 UM vs 60 varangians or something.

Seen the comp getting bad siege assulter in comp vs comp battles though.

[Weebeast]

My bad for my ignorance lol. I don't auto-calculate so I never really noticed that. Also, I knew you could rout outside the castle, I just didn't think anybody would send a general out to destroy the mangonels.

Anyway, after reading that link again, now I know I should move my governors around in order to get better traits.

[Ciaran]

If the castle falls all by itself, i.e. without the attack, then some of the inhabitants end up as prisoners as well. I even caught a king that way.

Regarding V&Vs in general, sometimes they contradict themselves, more than one of my characters was a "Man of principles" while at the same time he had "weak principles"

[Ironside]

Regarding V&Vs in general, sometimes they contradict themselves, more than one of my characters was a "Man of principles" while at the same time he had "weak principles"

Have seen a Unbribable (+200% to bribe) person with moral flexibility (-30% to bribe) general once.

Cannot beat this complex guy though.

[EatYerGreens]

You pick up the not so bold vice by not engaging the enemy with your general during battles, so you can avoid it. I also think that if you get too many high starred generals, the game compensates by introducing vices to even things out, such as "always drunk" etc.

Well, I would agree with the second half of that statement, about game balancing factors.

Most of the time, I keep my general well away from the action and never seem to pick up any vices for doing that. On the rare occasions when they do get involved, it is usually due to a certain amount of desperation and they frequently get themselves killed in the process, whether I win or lose.

The one time I saw one of my own general's getting 'not so bold', it actually involved a battle won versus the AI. He was a Katank unit and this was in the desert, so exhaustion and being the last man left in his unit had something to do with it. I'd pushed the AI to the back end of the map and was at the stage of coping with its incoming reinforcements. I probably wasn't concentrating on his environs properly and I suspect he auto-engaged something (i.e. without me expressly pointing and clicking at any target). He was obviously in no fit state to fight and actually routed forwards, so as to take the shortest distance to get off the map. Fortunately, the effect on my remaining men was negligible and the job was finished sometime later.

So, I reckon he was given that vice for having routed. I've had generals who routed but rallied and didn't get this vice afterwards but the ones who go right off the map, without stopping, will likely get the "coward" vice. Perhaps the very short distance mine had to run helped limit it to 'not so bold'?

[Weebeast]

Yeah, I've been inquisiting kings lately and they get two contradicting vices; being an atheist and devout at the same time.

[Ciaran]

What, you can´t be a devouted atheist ?