BI Multiplayer

[Kanamori]

As a former VI MPer, and I see some familiar names back here lately, do you think I would like the MP in BI? I wasn't a fan of RTW MP, but how did it change?

Thanks

Edit: Who is still playing that I would know of? I see Chaos are still around. RTK, Wolf, SA, Bears, still around?

[Loinnreach]

Cheers m8! ('vorcid' on .net in case if you remeber)

BI much more different then RTW and nearer to VI gameplay, still not same. In some aspects VI is better and in others BI. (despite others might claim different :P)

Who is still playing that I would know of? I see Chaos are still around. RTK, Wolf, SA, Bears, still around?

Things are not bad as it might seemed. Few Chaos and SA members are playing VI as well some play BI thought. Few veteran Wolf players like Paolai, Kyolic and Korugane now as well (Irish Fenian from net) can be seen in BI lobbies as well. RTK is focused on RTW/BI entirely while Bears continue in VI as well as Aggony, Hunters, Heerban (formed from few younger Elite members), Tiger clan, VDM. (if I've forget someone mention it)

To summarize all this, I assume you would like BI, despite it's gameplay is different then VI. Maybe someone else who know you better might offer you more help here.

Anyhow it is good to see you around.

Lion

[Puzz3D]

As a former VI MPer, and I see some familiar names back here lately, do you think I would like the MP in BI? I wasn't a fan of RTW MP, but how did it change?

1. Spears work better vs cav (cav jumping toned down and spears now properly reflect the cav's charge bonus back onto the cav).

2. Charge bonus was lowered resulting in less charge kills and therefore units fighting longer.

3. Phalanx was fixed so that enemy at the spearpoints die rather than the spearman dying as happened in RTW v1.2.

4. Something was done to adversely affect unit overlapping but I don't know what and I can't see any difference in this regard.

5. Archers may be more effective, but shield seems to be more effective as well.

6. Replays are now broken and don't playback correctly.

[Kanamori]

Have they fixed the alt-click so that I can move selected units and keep formation?

The charge bit seemed key to my dislike of the gameplay, as well as the "over-effectiveness" of bows, imo (oddly, I was a fan of archer units and skirmishing in the VI days, but that seemed to somehow make it worse).

So, the rate of battle has slowed? this was my major problem I guess, as it seemed like the battles were too dependent on initial conditions, ie army compositions.

It is good to hear that improvements were made, and that some old names are back (good to see you again cid).

My vow not to buy BI after the disappointing 1.2 patch is seeming to become strained, especially after I am getting sick of WoW.

[Puzz3D]

Have they fixed the alt-click so that I can move selected units and keep formation?

Alt-click is questionable. Sometimes it does what you want and sometimes it doesn't. The formation AI can decide that your custom formation is disorganized and will change it to a simple formation (usually a line) when you issue the move command. Also, you have to wait until units arrive at their destination before issuing a new move order if you want to preserve your custom formation. Rather than fight this I just go with what formation the AI deems acceptable. Then I can give movement orders while my men are moving as long as it doesn't involve a rotation. You have some control over these standard formations with the double line, triple line, etc. formations.

So, the rate of battle has slowed? this was my major problem I guess, as it seemed like the battles were too dependent on initial conditions, ie army compositions.

Well, I have yet to try a 12.5k game. I played a 30k game, and the fighting time was slow enough to issue lots of individual movement orders to my units and for them to come to the assistance of fighting units.

My vow not to buy BI after the disappointing 1.2 patch is seeming to become strained, especially after I am getting sick of WoW.

You don't have to buy BI. You can download the free RTW v1.3 patch and try that. You just won't be able to play BI which is a separate executable.[/QUOTE]

[Tomisama]

BI seems to have brought back the connection (and replay) issues of v1.0.

(have mistakenly said v1.1 in another post, but that was the patch for the 1.0 problem)

Does the free RTW v1.3 upgrade also have the same connection oversensitivity and broken replays?

Are you able to play 4v4 in v1.3 (with folks with known dependable systems) without problems?

Thanks

[Loinnreach]

Personaly I haven't encountered any problems with controls reated with untis and their manouvering. And yes, units keep formations this time.

I've even played a 4v4 match without any lag, but the hoster had around 1MB/s.

Yes, the biggest issues is and remains replay desync but all rest seems ok. I've as well heard that after you install BI, you should re-install it and you will
hardly have any lag, except maybe in 4v4.

When you will be looking for good matches, they are able to be find in chat lobby from 6pm or 7pm GMT on. This is quit same like it was/is in VI lobbies.

[Kalle]

Kana,

U do not ask if your old clan is still around?

If you hurry you might catch HeadHurler before he drops his Tenjotag, I dropped mine yesterday.

Kalle

[Orda Khan]

Fixed the alt/click problem?
They just changed it that's all. Make a group from your units and simply scroll out where you want their destination point. You do not have to wait for them to stop before deciding to move again, just scroll out their new destination. Once units are grouped they remain in their deployment, so if any units need to engage or are attacked, scroll out again and they re establish their position. This was true in RTW too

.....Orda

[Kanamori]

Is the drag formation by selection or by group? Say I have my standard line of infantry and to the back left, I have some calvary. If I select/have grouped those infantry and those calvary, I can drag-and-drop the group/selection and the calvary will stay to the back left of the infantry? Which reminds me of another question, sorry for all of them, can I now have some units grouped via "g" and have some of those same units inside a ctrl-1 grp?

Cheers Kalle, how have you been?

[Puzz3D]

Is the drag formation by selection or by group? Say I have my standard line of infantry and to the back left, I have some calvary. If I select/have grouped those infantry and those calvary, I can drag-and-drop the group/selection and the calvary will stay to the back left of the infantry? Which reminds me of another question, sorry for all of them, can I now have some units grouped via "g" and have some of those same units inside a ctrl-1 grp?

There are no subgroups in RTW.

I was mistaken about having to wait for rotation of the army to stop before moving it to a new location. You can give the move command before the rotation finishes and the rotation takes place enroute. You don't have to group the units because the AI will maintain certain standard formations. What isn't preservered is your custom formation if the AI decides it's disorganized. The AI will then change your formation, and it doesn't matter how you have grouped it. I've seen the AI change my entire, single grouped, army formation to a line when I rotated it because my formation was unusual.

[Kanamori]

That's one of the big things that really made me hate RTW

[Loinnreach]

Kanamori, this is made better then in VI. Manouvering is 'simplified' and easier. I know well that some prefer VI controls, but this BI manouvering offers as well some challenge. BI is not RTW, depsite same controles.

[Orda Khan]

I have never witnessed any AI intervention to my deployment. I suspect that this is caused when some units are not contained in a certain group but all are selected when the command is given, this will cause rearrangement.
If all 20 units are grouped in a formation, that formation will be retained when you scroll ( r/click and drag ) their new destination. Within this group you can issue commands to certain units, for instance, a cav attack and provided they are still in the main group, scrolling a new destination will bring all units back to their original formation. Then again you could choose to have multiple groups and scroll each out individually. This does not take that much longer but it does allow some readjustment. Also, you can remove some units from the main group without altering the formation of the remaining units in the group.
Like you, I was quite put out when RTW was released and I thought CA had ruined the commands. This is not the case, they still exist only now they have been made easier. Do you remember how, in STW, you could only select a single unit, all units of same type or the entire group once you had formed a group? That was changed in MTW and you were able to issue commands to multiple units within a group. That was much better but the old 'sideways shuffle' was lost and units moving sideways turned their flank to the enemy That was not so good. The only thing which I miss from MTW is the ability to drag out units and r/click to achieve equal depth.
I would suggest experimenting with a few custom battles and I an sure you will find that things are just as easy, if not easier, to control

......Orda

[Kanamori]

Okay, RTW will be re-installed and I'll download the 1.3 and experiment in custom to experience how things work. Thanks for all the input.

[Puzz3D]

Kanamori, this is made better then in VI. Manouvering is 'simplified' and easier. I know well that some prefer VI controls, but this BI manouvering offers as well some challenge. BI is not RTW, depsite same controles.

Well I can't use the echelon formations I used in STW/MTW. The AI in RTW changes my formation to one of its simple formations when I rotate it even if the whole thing is one big group. It's just too management intensive for me to position every single unit in an echelon everytime I want to change the facing or move the formation. I can't redraw the formation with drag because the new location is often too far away and I can't scroll the camera that far. RTW is ok if you relegate yourself to using the simple formations the AI considers to be organized formations, but that means I can't use most of the tactics I used in STW/MTW because they are formation based.

I even tried a simple grouped formation of 4 infantry in a line with 1 cav out front. When I rotated the group the AI changed the formation to a single line with the cavalry unit spaced way out to one side. The units were in a single group!

There is something else messed up as well. Try countermarching a line using ALT click so that the units will turn back to their original facing after they finish marching. You'll find that the units change sides. The units to the left go to the right and the ones on the right go to the left as though you rotated the line. It produces a huge mess and takes a huge amount of time to complete the maneuver. The alternatives are to not use ALT at all, march your units back further than you want and then countermarch them again to reverse the facing or to drag the line, but I didn't drag lines in STW/MTW if I didn't have to because it's less efficient. You have to move the camera a couple of times if the line is long. If you don't have to move the camera around and can keep it centralized using rotation and single point movement commands, it's more efficient controlling your army, and given the high running speeds of the units in RTW being efficient is important.

[Tomisama]

I am still in just beginning the phases of dealing with v1.3, but have found that I can by one means or another, do almost everything I could in VI.

Now these things may be to simple a answer for some, but may encourage others, who knows

For sub grouping, set up your groups with Control and number. Then use Control+A to super group your whole army.

For groups of groups, hold Control and Click on group tabs to select multiple groups. But basically leave the G key out of it. The habit of “not” using it may save you some frets down the line.

To be able to drag out a group or groups, first select them, then press Shift +1, and you can drag them out to a double line as far as they will go, or pack them up real tight, same as VI.

There are many improvements in v1.3 that make it well worth investigating. An hey, it’s free


Q. How can you tell a hard core Total War multiplayer?
A. Their keybord has had the Windows key caps removed, so they can't be hit by accident.

Try it

[Kanamori]

Wasn't there a program that alioven or mordred made for that?

[Loinnreach]

RTW is ok if you relegate yourself to using the simple formations the AI considers to be organized formations, but that means I can't use most of the tactics I used in STW/MTW because they are formation based.

I'm assume that you can. (don't hold me for word) I'm refering to BI here (1.4), so I don't know how RTW 1.3 has this managed.

I even tried a simple grouped formation of 4 infantry in a line with 1 cav out front. When I rotated the group the AI changed the formation to a single line with the cavalry unit spaced way out to one side. The units were in a single group!

It would be best if you experiment in custom a bit. I haven't encountered this problem yet in BI. No matter how I group units or how I move them, they don't change formations. (BI in mind)

There is something else messed up as well. Try countermarching a line using ALT click so that the units will turn back to their original facing after they finish marching. You'll find that the units change sides. The units to the left go to the right and the ones on the right go to the left as though you rotated the line. It produces a huge mess and takes a huge amount of time to complete the maneuver. The alternatives are to not use ALT at all, march your units back further than you want and then countermarch them again to reverse the facing or to drag the line, but I didn't drag lines in STW/MTW if I didn't have to because it's less efficient.

Why to be less efficient? (asking for BI here)
I've as well tryed this sometimes in MTW but worked ok everytime. It seemed efficient enough.

[Puzz3D]

It would be best if you experiment in custom a bit. I haven't encountered this problem yet in BI. No matter how I group units or how I move them, they don't change formations. (BI in mind)

The formation is preserved in RTW v1.3 if it's a single group and I always drag and drop. You can redraw it as many times as necessary even while it's moving. So, I'll switch to using drag and drop all the time rather than point and click.