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Originally Posted by Spetulhu:
It is rude but quite true. Having nuclear weapons ready to wipe out all the large cities of hostile nations in the event of Israel's total defeat is most certainly a kind of "Final Solution".
Utter piffle. The phrase "Final Solution" was a direct reference to the genocidal efforts of the Nazis against the Jews during the '39-45 war. Solypsist was well aware of the tone of his reference and his comment was too snide (IMO). His phrasing was designed to connote a parallel between the Jewish state and that of Nazi Germany. I presume that it was a missed attempt at humor, but queried him since I do not know his mind nor what prompted him to use such a turn of phrase.It is rude but quite true. Having nuclear weapons ready to wipe out all the large cities of hostile nations in the event of Israel's total defeat is most certainly a kind of "Final Solution".
Israel's presumed nuclear arsenal does constitute a potential threat against neighboring states. That they would use such weapons in the event Israel were being demolished is a distinct possibility, and such an attack would cause catastrohic casualties, but it does not represent a near-genocidal threat against the various Arab (and non-arab) Middle Eastern States.
nuking the middle east (and themselves in the process) would indeed be a genocidal move, for both people and culture. so my reference was not an insult but a precise wording used to point out a hypocritical policy by Israel.
on a different tangent:
the USA has done a whole lot of bad things in Iran in pretty recent history so you can't really blame them for hating the US. The fact that Israel is largely protected by the US (money and materiel) I think makes Israel further a target by association.
on a different tangent:
the USA has done a whole lot of bad things in Iran in pretty recent history so you can't really blame them for hating the US. The fact that Israel is largely protected by the US (money and materiel) I think makes Israel further a target by association.
Who is the them in
Originally Posted by :
you can't really blame them for hating the US.
Are you talking your average Iranian? Are you sure thats how they really feel?you can't really blame them for hating the US.
yes, the "them" refers to Iranians.
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny:
Who is the them in
Are you talking your average Iranian? Are you sure thats how they really feel?
Who is the them in
Are you talking your average Iranian? Are you sure thats how they really feel?
Originally Posted by solypsist:
nuking the middle east (and themselves in the process) would indeed be a genocidal move, for both people and culture. so my reference was not an insult but a precise wording used to point out a hypocritical policy by Israel.
Sorry, what is the hypocritical policy you're talking about?nuking the middle east (and themselves in the process) would indeed be a genocidal move, for both people and culture. so my reference was not an insult but a precise wording used to point out a hypocritical policy by Israel.
If I was an Israeli citizen who was sitting in my home watching thousands of screaming Arab soldiers pouring into my country bent on killing me and my family, I would at least want the small last comforting thought of knowing that a volley of nukes was already en route to turn my murderers' homelands into giant, glowing parking lots.
Oh thats right I forgot what a free and open society they have over there. Im sure the demonstration was totally spontaneous. Also it calls for the destruction of Israel not the US. I suppose you also think this jerk was fairly elected.
which is my point: a people who were victims of a process of genocide are now openly advocating the same thing against their regional neighbors, if a certain amount of land should happen to fall to Arab possession.
Originally Posted by Goofball:
Sorry, what is the hypocritical policy you're talking about?
If I was an Israeli citizen who was sitting in my home watching thousands of screaming Arab soldiers pouring into my country bent on killing me and my family, I would at least want the small last comforting thought of knowing that a volley of nukes was already en route to turn my murderers' homelands into giant, glowing parking lots.
Sorry, what is the hypocritical policy you're talking about?
If I was an Israeli citizen who was sitting in my home watching thousands of screaming Arab soldiers pouring into my country bent on killing me and my family, I would at least want the small last comforting thought of knowing that a volley of nukes was already en route to turn my murderers' homelands into giant, glowing parking lots.
Originally Posted by :
which is my point: a people who were victims of a process of genocide are now openly advocating the same thing against their regional neighbors, if a certain amount of land should happen to fall to Arab possession.
Thats total BS and you know it. Talk about spin.which is my point: a people who were victims of a process of genocide are now openly advocating the same thing against their regional neighbors, if a certain amount of land should happen to fall to Arab possession.
please keep in mind that people (even moderators) are entitled to our opinion.
is it BS? it migtt be, you have every right to disagree.everyone appreciates your provacative nature, but a better dialogue-creating move than just calling it spin might be to demonstrate how my opinion is flawed, with facts, links, and ideas to the contrary. just calling it BS doesn't really leave me anywhere to go in continuing this topic with you.
is it BS? it migtt be, you have every right to disagree.everyone appreciates your provacative nature, but a better dialogue-creating move than just calling it spin might be to demonstrate how my opinion is flawed, with facts, links, and ideas to the contrary. just calling it BS doesn't really leave me anywhere to go in continuing this topic with you.
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny:
Thats total BS and you know it. Talk about spin.
Thats total BS and you know it. Talk about spin.
Yiour saying that if a country declares it will defend itself if attacked is the same as threatening its neighbors. Theres no way around it. Its BS.
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny:
Yiour saying that if a country declares it will defend itself if attacked is the same as threatening its neighbors. Theres no way around it. Its BS.
Well it is when your neighbours seem to think it's their land.Yiour saying that if a country declares it will defend itself if attacked is the same as threatening its neighbors. Theres no way around it. Its BS.
It's all posturing anyway. There are 100,000 American soldiers between Israel and Iran. No one's invading anyone.
Originally Posted by :
Well it is when your neighbours seem to think it's their land.
So who then is threatining who? I suggest many of you have your priorities confused. I suppose now Poland was threating Germany in 1930s.Well it is when your neighbours seem to think it's their land.
Im sure the demonstration was totally spontaneous.
Actually Gawain the demonstration is an annual event .
I suppose now Poland was threating Germany in 1930s.
Interesting , a debatable point , yes they were , but thay were not threatening to wipe Germany from the map . Germany on the other hand did have the intention of wiping Poland from the map .
There are 100,000 American soldiers between Israel and Iran.
But Iran has a lot of Proxy "soldiers" alongside those American soldiers , and also lots of proxy "soldiers" between thsose American soldiers and Israel and to the North of Israel .
It's all posturing anyway.
No one's invading anyone.
Yep , stupid sabre rattling from all sides .
Actually Gawain the demonstration is an annual event .
I suppose now Poland was threating Germany in 1930s.
Interesting , a debatable point , yes they were , but thay were not threatening to wipe Germany from the map . Germany on the other hand did have the intention of wiping Poland from the map .
There are 100,000 American soldiers between Israel and Iran.
But Iran has a lot of Proxy "soldiers" alongside those American soldiers , and also lots of proxy "soldiers" between thsose American soldiers and Israel and to the North of Israel .
It's all posturing anyway.
No one's invading anyone.
Yep , stupid sabre rattling from all sides .
To compare the active genocide of a certain ethnic group within a nation and occupied territories with no provocation to the defensive nuclear posture that is common among most nations with nuclear weapons that would only take effect if said nation was attacked is BS.
The only way such a comparison could even come close to being correct is if the Jewish peoples in Europe had constituted both a state and that that state attacked Germany and they defended themselves.
Of course some liberals always try and draw comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany, most just as skewed as Solypsis's, because it is the ultimate insult to Jewish people.
The only way such a comparison could even come close to being correct is if the Jewish peoples in Europe had constituted both a state and that that state attacked Germany and they defended themselves.
Of course some liberals always try and draw comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany, most just as skewed as Solypsis's, because it is the ultimate insult to Jewish people.
Originally Posted by Dâriûsh:
It is unusual for a high-ranking official to say such things publicly, so he is either A) Being defiant in the face of the world, B) pandering to his followers, or C) both.
Given the timing, I think I can conclude that it was both. But it was most likely also in defiance of the current clergy. The same was said by Ayatollah Khomeini during the revolution.It is unusual for a high-ranking official to say such things publicly, so he is either A) Being defiant in the face of the world, B) pandering to his followers, or C) both.
Given the timing Dariush he just wanted a headline grabber for Al-Quds day .
Its guaranteed to get plenty of media coverage for the demonstrations .
He just wants to show that he is the baddest mother in the whole world ...... "Forget Osama , look at me everybody I don't give a damn , I am still a crazy but dedicated extremist revolutionary"
Its guaranteed to get plenty of media coverage for the demonstrations .
He just wants to show that he is the baddest mother in the whole world ...... "Forget Osama , look at me everybody I don't give a damn , I am still a crazy but dedicated extremist revolutionary"
Originally Posted by Spetulhu:
Hey, what's a man supposed to do? He's surrounded by heavily armed Americans and suspected of trying to build nuclear weapons. It's time for some posturing in order to bolster confidence at home. Anti-Israel posturing also buys support from people outside Iran.
The anti Israel sentiment all around the world has decreased due to the terrorism. So conflicts within Islam are growing larger for every terrorist act. There are nothing positive in promoting violence as a muslim nation today, not even against Israel. These views are outdated......Hey, what's a man supposed to do? He's surrounded by heavily armed Americans and suspected of trying to build nuclear weapons. It's time for some posturing in order to bolster confidence at home. Anti-Israel posturing also buys support from people outside Iran.
Originally Posted by PanzerJager:
I meant arab in the political sense, ie the Pan-Arab movement.
To be more specific, the President of Iran was playing on the anti-semetic hate that is common among muslims in the Middle East.
Most of the Muslims in the Middle East are Semitic.I meant arab in the political sense, ie the Pan-Arab movement.
To be more specific, the President of Iran was playing on the anti-semetic hate that is common among muslims in the Middle East.
I don't think the hatred against Israel should be confused with hatred against Jews. If Japan had set up a colonial state in the middle of Palestine in the 1940s, I'm sure there would be the same kinds of hatred and antagonism against them.
I wonder how many of you have really tried to see this issue from the Arab perspective.
Of course I condemn any words of hatred, war, and destruction by political leaders, but I can understand why the Arabs feel that the creation of Israel was an act of Western imperialism.
Originally Posted by solypsist:
which is my point: a people who were victims of a process of genocide are now openly advocating the same thing against their regional neighbors, if a certain amount of land should happen to fall to Arab possession.
Huh, that's pointless, every nation is entitled to protect itself against foreign invaders, wether they're Israelis, Palestinians, Iranians, or whatever else. which is my point: a people who were victims of a process of genocide are now openly advocating the same thing against their regional neighbors, if a certain amount of land should happen to fall to Arab possession.
Now imagine the soviets had nukes during WWII. Knowing they would have been wiped from the face of earth by the Nazis, they would have been perfectly entitled to nuke Germany to hell. The same could be said about Isreal. I don't like Isreal policy, but right now, if they lose a war against, let's say, Iran, that will likely mean that all Jews will either have to flee to Europe/US or to get killed.
And I dunno where you got the ideas that Israelis were advocating the genocide of their Arab neighbours (apart from a few far right wing loonies). On the other hand, many muslims (Palestinians, Iranians) are advocating for the simple and plain extermination of all Isrealis, and *that is* genocide.
Originally Posted by Tachikaze:
I don't think the hatred against Israel should be confused with hatred against Jews.
Yeah, it shouldn't be. But it is. For pan-muslim fundamentalists, jews = israel = christians = the US = the Western World = EvilI don't think the hatred against Israel should be confused with hatred against Jews.
Originally Posted by Tribesman:
Given the timing Dariush he just wanted a headline grabber for Al-Quds day .
Its guaranteed to get plenty of media coverage for the demonstrations .
Exactly. For those who don’t know, Al-Quds is Arabic for Jerusalem. Ayatollah Khomeini made the last Friday in the Ramadan ”Jerusalem Day”.Given the timing Dariush he just wanted a headline grabber for Al-Quds day .
Its guaranteed to get plenty of media coverage for the demonstrations .
It goes beyiond just defense: The Israelis have made it known that they are willing to nuke the entire Middle Eastern region and every Arab country in the event Israel is in danger of being defeated. It means that if, for example, Iran invades and appears to be victorious, then all Arab countries, even those not involved, will get nuked, too.
Don't take offense with me, take offense at this policy.
Don't take offense with me, take offense at this policy.
Originally Posted by Meneldil:
Huh, that's pointless, every nation is entitled to protect itself against foreign invaders, wether they're Israelis, Palestinians, Iranians, or whatever else.
And I dunno where you got the ideas that Israelis were advocating the genocide of their Arab neighbours (apart from a few far right wing loonies).
Huh, that's pointless, every nation is entitled to protect itself against foreign invaders, wether they're Israelis, Palestinians, Iranians, or whatever else.
And I dunno where you got the ideas that Israelis were advocating the genocide of their Arab neighbours (apart from a few far right wing loonies).
the backdown
Soly, as Dâriûsh pointed out above, Iran is generally not Arab. And that's a bad example you gave. Iran would need the cooperation of Israils neighbors to launch an invasion. And I do think if that were the case, Israil would have every justification in nuking them.
Also may I suggest that this policy is actually a good idea. If it hits the an, then most nations likely hostile to israel are likely to not attack for fear of being too sucessful. and if the ne dumb enough to attack is succeeding, then the other Arab states will likely apply pressure to pull back. A way to make your enemies your allies, a butish way but a way. Sure economic ties would be better.
How old is this policy?
Soly, as Dâriûsh pointed out above, Iran is generally not Arab. And that's a bad example you gave. Iran would need the cooperation of Israils neighbors to launch an invasion. And I do think if that were the case, Israil would have every justification in nuking them.
Also may I suggest that this policy is actually a good idea. If it hits the an, then most nations likely hostile to israel are likely to not attack for fear of being too sucessful. and if the ne dumb enough to attack is succeeding, then the other Arab states will likely apply pressure to pull back. A way to make your enemies your allies, a butish way but a way. Sure economic ties would be better.
How old is this policy?
1) Iran is nowhere near Israel. No matter what route you take, the Iranian army would have to traverse two countries to get there. Long supply lines.
2) The US has stronger relations with Israel than Kuwait, and a much stronger presence there. The reaction to some hypotheitcal invasion of Israel would be immeditate and thorough.
3) No Muslim nation wants to nuke Israel, even if they could. They don't want to destroy the Holy Land. They want control of Jerusalem, but they want it intact, not a smoking, radioactive hole.
2) The US has stronger relations with Israel than Kuwait, and a much stronger presence there. The reaction to some hypotheitcal invasion of Israel would be immeditate and thorough.
3) No Muslim nation wants to nuke Israel, even if they could. They don't want to destroy the Holy Land. They want control of Jerusalem, but they want it intact, not a smoking, radioactive hole.
my mistake. i put the word Arab in when I meant Muslim. this has been their unoffical policy since they acquired nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.
as far as it being a good idea, that's debatabe - if a Muslim country were to say this, what do you think would happen within the global community? No one would want to associate with them. But since it's Israel, it's okay.
as far as it being a good idea, that's debatabe - if a Muslim country were to say this, what do you think would happen within the global community? No one would want to associate with them. But since it's Israel, it's okay.
Originally Posted by discovery1:
the backdown
Soly, as Dâriûsh pointed out above, Iran is generally not Arab. And that's a bad example you gave. Iran would need the cooperation of Israils neighbors to launch an invasion. And I do think if that were the case, Israil would have every justification in nuking them.
Also may I suggest that this policy is actually a good idea. If it hits the an, then most nations likely hostile to israel are likely to not attack for fear of being too sucessful. and if the ne dumb enough to attack is succeeding, then the other Arab states will likely apply pressure to pull back. A way to make your enemies your allies, a butish way but a way. Sure economic ties would be better.
How old is this policy?
the backdown
Soly, as Dâriûsh pointed out above, Iran is generally not Arab. And that's a bad example you gave. Iran would need the cooperation of Israils neighbors to launch an invasion. And I do think if that were the case, Israil would have every justification in nuking them.
Also may I suggest that this policy is actually a good idea. If it hits the an, then most nations likely hostile to israel are likely to not attack for fear of being too sucessful. and if the ne dumb enough to attack is succeeding, then the other Arab states will likely apply pressure to pull back. A way to make your enemies your allies, a butish way but a way. Sure economic ties would be better.
How old is this policy?
Originally Posted by :
It goes beyiond just defense: The Israelis have made it known that they are willing to nuke the entire Middle Eastern region and every Arab country in the event Israel is in danger of being defeated.
How does this differ from the positions of the US and Russia or China? Do you think the Russia wouldnt resort to nukes if they were in danger of being defeated or the US for that matter? In fact havent we threatened to do just that if nukes were ever launched against us?It goes beyiond just defense: The Israelis have made it known that they are willing to nuke the entire Middle Eastern region and every Arab country in the event Israel is in danger of being defeated.
Originally Posted by Tachikaze:
3) No Muslim nation wants to nuke Israel, even if they could. They don't want to destroy the Holy Land. They want control of Jerusalem, but they want it intact, not a smoking, radioactive hole.
Though they* probably wouldn't mind using a weapon that eliminated all Jewish Israelis while leaving everything else intact.3) No Muslim nation wants to nuke Israel, even if they could. They don't want to destroy the Holy Land. They want control of Jerusalem, but they want it intact, not a smoking, radioactive hole.
*Whoever "they" is.
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good:
Though they* probably wouldn't mind using a weapon that eliminated all Jewish Israelis while leaving everything else intact.
A holy weapon that could distinguish between Muslims, Jews, and the rest? Personally, I think killing all the Muslims in the ‘occupied territory’ would render decades worth of good rhetoric somewhat futile.Though they* probably wouldn't mind using a weapon that eliminated all Jewish Israelis while leaving everything else intact.
Wait...
Martyrs!
So, he does not want Israel on the map.
So, all we do is give him an old map of the Persian Empire, though he might get worried about those Greeks. Problem solved.
I am comic relief incarnate.
So, all we do is give him an old map of the Persian Empire, though he might get worried about those Greeks. Problem solved.
I am comic relief incarnate.
Originally Posted by Martinus:
So, he does not want Israel on the map.
So, all we do is give him an old map of the Persian Empire, though he might get worried about those Greeks. Problem solved.
I am comic relief incarnate.
The clergy hates the old Persians. There has even been talk of flooding Persepolis.So, he does not want Israel on the map.
So, all we do is give him an old map of the Persian Empire, though he might get worried about those Greeks. Problem solved.
I am comic relief incarnate.
Originally Posted by :
The clergy hates the old Persians. There has even been talk of flooding Persepolis.
Let me guess, is it because they where not muslims?The clergy hates the old Persians. There has even been talk of flooding Persepolis.
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