Multi-culturalism

[GoreBag]

Multi-culturalism is a double-edged sword. I think it should mean something to be whom and what you are, but I also think that, on the whole, there is no reason why intelligent people can't learn from one another's point of view, since that really is what 'culture' means.

I don't mind pockets of different cultures in different areas; without them, we would all be one people. I'm not in favour of this - why be the same if we're not?

That being said, I hve no problem learning German or French in order to communicate and understand the people around me - hell, even the drug dealers speak two languages. In fact, without the isolated pocket of culture in my city, I would never have been able to learn German at all. There would be no ethnic restaurants, no festivals, and we'd all be Anglican (well, here, at least). How boring!

While there is a corelation between minority groups and crime, from petty thieves to gangsters, this is a 'corelation and not causation' issue. Everyone's heard that line before. I've never committed a hate crime before, so I don't really have much for input, but I imagine it's easier to shiv a man for his wallet if you don't even speak the same language.

I also don't think that all this fuss about fighting to maintain one's culture even makes sense. Culture isn't static - do these people even know what they're trying to maintain? It doesn't seem like it to me. It's one thing to keep doing things that your people do, like prepare certain dishes or speak a certain language, but one can't prop up a culture for its own sake. It's not possible.

On the other hand, I wish I'd been taught to speak Gaelic as a child. I have no interest in being another white-washed (excuse the pun) North American.

I'm missing a snappy line to wrap this up, but feel free to nitpick my text to shreds.

[bmolsson]

One thing I was thinking of, don't you have to HAVE a culture before somebody can FORCE you to change it ???

[thrashaholic]

Ah, but you did not recognize that there can always be more than one culture within one legal, "national", or even territorial identity. What constitutes society in your meaning?

A society is a body of people linked together by common traits or shared interest, distinguishable from all others. Their culture, heriatage, upbringing etc. is either the same or very similar (ie there can be and is always variation within a society).

The USA is a prime example of where the term 'multi-culturalism' is mis-used, we keep hearing "American culture is a 'mish-mash' of lots of different cultures; the epitome of a functioning multi-cultural society", but in fact there is only one culture: American culture. Immigrants have over time added their flavour to it, and it changes, but there is in no way several distinct cultures running parallel to each other in American society. Immigrants who don't fit in to this culture aren't part of American society (as I understand, a lot of Mexican et al. ghettoise themselves into Spanish speaking societies); they can interact with American society, but are never part of it.

The UK is good example of a number of seperate cultures and societies living under one national identity. Societal divisions run deep in Britain: England/Scotland, England/Wales, Protestant/Catholic (or 'British'/Irish), North/South, etc.; animosities and mistrust still exist between these societies, even though they've been running in parallel for centuries. They have never blended and never can be blended; the idea of a unifying 'British' culture, propagated during the time of the Act of Union, is a manufactured one that has yet to and never will materialise. Two or more societies can never merge, only members of them can move and adopt a new society, and this only happens in small numbers.

[Strike For The South]

meh Texans have been putting minorities down for 200 years I see no reason to change

[Fragony]

Multiculture, if it worked, fine, eventually. Multicult; bleh.

[Papewaio]

Surprise I am for multiculturalism.

I am against mono-culturalism. That is practiced by those who believe in only their culture and wish to force others to partake of their culture.

A quick cross-section of mono-culturalists.
Cults, KKK, Aryan Nation, Nazis, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Communism.

I also would add that most problems caused in immigration are lack of understanding (which leads to fear and anger) and the inability to communicate. These are related issues. I think that it is up to the immigrants to learn how to communicate, it is also up to the society to help them learn. If you truly accept an immigrant you cannot leave them to fend for themselves. If they are to become a viable upstanding member of society you need to show interest in them, an understanding of their predicament and the oppourtunity for them to learn and understand you too.

So I do think at school, children need to be taught the fundamentals maths, science, the local language, some history and current social studies, sports of the country and foods too. Adult immigrants can find it very difficult to learn, I am not so worried about that portion. As long as we integrate the children and teach them respect for themselves, their parents culture, their new society and other cultures then we are heading in a positive future driven direction.

On the flip side, someones culture should never be used as a defence for a crime. If anything someone who comes from a criminal causing background should get a heavier sentence. This would limit their own chance of creating a family and hence limit them continuing the cycle.

In short I think it is lack of knowledge and self esteem that causes most racism. The key to that is teaching and mixing.

[Soulforged]

A quick cross-section of mono-culturalists.
....Communism.

Sorry but as you know now I couldn't let this pass. What in the hell has to do communism with culture?
Some people confuse communism with political theory, but now it's with cultural models?

[Papewaio]

Simple you either join the communists of go to a gulag/die in the killing fields/mines/leave the country.

Communists only accept communists.

[Lazul]

well communism as an idea has little or nothing to do with culture. The problem is that the communistic experiments that has taken place the past century went so totaly wrong and 'they' forced their own, made up, culture on the people.
I doubt Marx would have like the idea of cultures being forced upon the people.

[Fragony]

I am against mono-culturalism. That is practiced by those who believe in only their culture and wish to force others to partake of their culture.

Sounds like the multiculture just got mono.

In short I think it is lack of knowledge and self esteem that causes most racism. The key to that is teaching and mixing.

To achieve what? You think you are building but you are really destroying. Racism exists because people are racist, nothing more nothing less. All the multiculti priests in the world cannot change human nature, people will always flock around their own kind.

[Idaho]

The USA is a prime example of where the term 'multi-culturalism' is mis-used, we keep hearing "American culture is a 'mish-mash' of lots of different cultures; the epitome of a functioning multi-cultural society", but in fact there is only one culture: American culture. Immigrants have over time added their flavour to it, and it changes, but there is in no way several distinct cultures running parallel to each other in American society. Immigrants who don't fit in to this culture aren't part of American society (as I understand, a lot of Mexican et al. ghettoise themselves into Spanish speaking societies); they can interact with American society, but are never part of it.

Armish, Orthodox New York Jews, American Indians, Cajuns, etc..

Basicaly you're talking bollo*&$

[monkian]

Armish, Orthodox New York Jews, American Indians, Cajuns, etc..

Basicaly you're talking bollo*&$

Im sorry but the only real 'American' culture was almost wiped out by White Europeans hundreds of years ago.

The current American culture is surely a mix of its settlers cultures ? Or at the worst just Consumerism ?

[Byzantine Prince]

Im sorry but the only real 'American' culture was almost wiped out by White Europeans hundreds of years ago.

The current American culture is surely a mix of its settlers cultures ? Or at the worst just Consumerism ?

America is simply a plutocracy with freedom to develop any culture and subculture you can make up.

[yesdachi]

I am against mono-culturalism. That is practiced by those who believe in only their culture and wish to force others to partake of their culture.

Sounds vaguely similar to the practices of most religions I can think of.

[Lazul]

[B]To achieve what? You think you are building but you are really destroying. Racism exists because people are racist, nothing more nothing less. All the multiculti priests in the world cannot change human nature, people will always flock around their own kind.

...to achive a lesser amount of people being murdered due to their race?

What are the anti-racists destroying that is so valueble to keep?

[Rodion Romanovich]

I say this again: most racists aren't racists but scared of laws typical to foreign cultures taking over in their countries because the foreign culture becomes a majority. It's a valid threat they see, and the so called anti-racists who are against adding guarantees in the system that the locals will remain majority reinforce this racism, and create a future scenario where either the former local population or the immigrants will most likely become victims of oppression and real racism. In short - anti-racists create the racism and oppression of minorities they claim to be against. I'm against oppression of minorities and against minorities, but looking at history I've seen that there must be some type of guarantee that the locals will remain majority in order to avoid a such racial oppression and violence scenario.

[Fragony]

...to achive a lesser amount of people being murdered due to their race?

What are the anti-racists destroying that is so valueble to keep?

Anti racists mistake love and hate, there is nothing wrong with loving your own culture. There are really so many reasons to do so, as doing so is part of it. BUT, this worshipping has taken an ugly turn, as loving your own(european) culture is quite inpopular nowadays. If that is a false statement we could as well all go hindu/muslim/satanist; where exactly aren't we a culture of our own? And why should we change really, why are they comming here then. If they do, be like us, or try living without us. Both are fine witth me as long as nobody robs my granny.

[Papewaio]

I am against mono-culturalism. That is practiced by those who believe in only their culture and wish to force others to partake of their culture.

Sounds like the multiculture just got mono.

How is it mono? If you read the whole post you would see that it talks about more the one culture.

As long as we integrate the children and teach them respect for themselves, their parents culture, their new society and other cultures then we are heading in a positive future driven direction.

So nothing about not liking your own culture. About learning respect for who you are and where you are. And learning to respect other cultures.

In short I think it is lack of knowledge and self esteem that causes most racism. The key to that is teaching and mixing.

To achieve what? You think you are building but you are really destroying. Racism exists because people are racist, nothing more nothing less. All the multiculti priests in the world cannot change human nature, people will always flock around their own kind.

To achieve a country that is stronger, more vibrant, peaceful, harmonised.

I suggest you come to Australia, you will see people intermixing, people staying with their own kind, people intergrating, people chosing not to intergrate. They certainly do not always flock with their own kind.

If we all did flock with our own kind we would end up with the same genetic problems as incest... this is what happened with the European Royal families limiting themselves to only other Royals. The Russians ended up with rare genetic defects.

[Fragony]

.I suggest you come to Australia, you will see people intermixing, people staying with their own kind, people intergrating, people chosing not to intergrate. They certainly do not always flock with their own kind.

I suggest you come to the Netherlands, and see how it works when it gets a bit crowded. In Australia I expect people to have a bit more personal space, did you know there live more people here then in the entire continent of australia? It is a pressure boiler I tell you, living together while leaving eachother alone fine, but multiculture isn't tested before people actually have to sit on eachother lap. Let me tell you that it is a disaster. You have a rather attractive asian girlfriend, but that is just the multiculture within your own walls. Walk outside and it gets ugly.

[thrashaholic]

Armish, Orthodox New York Jews, American Indians, Cajuns, etc..

Basicaly you're talking bollo*&$

How civil....

[Idaho]

America is simply a plutocracy with freedom to develop any culture and subculture you can make up.

Providing it doesn't challenge the plutocrats.

[Papewaio]

I suggest you come to the Netherlands, and see how it works when it gets a bit crowded. In Australia I expect people to have a bit more personal space, did you know there live more people here then in the entire continent of australia? It is a pressure boiler I tell you, living together while leaving eachother alone fine, but multiculture isn't tested before people actually have to sit on eachother lap. Let me tell you that it is a disaster. You have a rather attractive asian girlfriend, but that is just the multiculture within your own walls. Walk outside and it gets ugly.

Where I work there are Australians... Lebanese, English, Irish, Indian, Turkish, Pakistanis, Fijians, Dutch, Italian, Indonesia etc etc. Same thing when I head to the food halls, get a bus, go shopping, wait in line at the bank, go to a library, or catch a train during peak hour and wish you were a sardine.

Over 90% of Australians live on the coast. 80% of Australians live in cities. 25% of Australians are born overseas, then add in second plus generations and you end up with a swirl of different ethnic and religous backgrounds. So our cities are a whole rainbow of groups and multiculturalism.

If you are going to live on each others lap I suggest you learn to be more cordial with each other.

[Soulforged]

well communism as an idea has little or nothing to do with culture. The problem is that the communistic experiments that has taken place the past century went so totaly wrong and 'they' forced their own, made up, culture on the people.
I doubt Marx would have like the idea of cultures being forced upon the people.

He didn't.
Pape: One thing is to say that I don't accept capitalists, another thing is to say that I don't accept your language, for example. Capitalists are not to be accepted because if they're all the revolution will be for nothing. If other cultures are accepted then there's no problem.

[GoreBag]

Communism is an extension of the idea that everyone is equal. In order for everyone to be equal, no one can be different.

[Soulforged]

Communism is an extension of the idea that everyone is equal. In order for everyone to be equal, no one can be different.

Good point, but you missed the fact that it talks about an economic system, not cultural or politic. All should be equal in economic resources.

[GoreBag]

Good point, but you missed the fact that it talks about an economic system, not cultural or politic. All should be equal in economic resources.

To escape social, cultural or political changes after the implementation of such a regime is impossible.

[bmolsson]

I have been intermixing between different cultures since puberty... It's the best.....

[Soulforged]

To escape social, cultural or political changes after the implementation of such a regime is impossible.

Just assumptions, fair, but just that. In theory it's possible, mostly when in reality it has been separated many times, mostly by big companies and government organisms.

[Papewaio]

Considering the revolution of communism includes wiping out/oppressing anyone who is not a communist it is a pretty fair statement to say they believe in a monoculture.

[GoreBag]

Just assumptions, fair, but just that. In theory it's possible, mostly when in reality it has been separated many times, mostly by big companies and government organisms.

No, it's entirely impossible. Every person under a newly-formed Communist regime would have a change in lifestyle simply because of the economic policies. The availability and variety of consumer products would change drastically. If the past is any indication, people will also be required to wait until a certain product is available, from televisions and stereos to automobiles. You must remember the DDR, right? The people 'earned' more money than they could spend because of the lack of availability of all consumer products.

In theory, Communism is also possible.