Fixing Pilum, formation help needed

[fallen851]

Ok, so we all know the Pilum system sucks.

First the enemy charges, and it takes 10 minutes for the roman troops to find their pilums, then they only throw one of them and charge.

Later in the battle, when you want to order them to attack, they stand around trying to find their pilums, the enemy begins engaging them hand to hand, and they throw their pilums at point blank range.... how accurate.

I hate the system, so I took out the "prec" attribute the weapon has in the "export_descar_unit" file and it began to work wonderfully... the AI would throw both pilums, then decide if they wanted to charge, and of course the player could do the same. The units would go into battle with pilums in hand. But in battles with more than 1 unit vs 1 unit, the AI (1.3 + Darth's Formation) doesn't use formations, it just makes one big line of its units and sends them at you.

I'm assuming that the formations need to be redone? The roman units with pilum (except hasti) are still "heavy" though, is the AI considering them missle troops?

How about (this could be me dreaming...) changing it so the primary attack the gladius, and the secondary is the pilum in the "export_descar_unit" file?

Any suggestions?

[skeletor]

I haven't tested this myself, but changinf places in export_descr_unit might do the trick. The problem that can occour, is that they throw their gladius, and then charge with their pilas.

This can be fixed if you have max, and just exchange the names on the weapons. You can probably allso ask someone to do this for you.

Could you try changing the export_descr_unit, and post how it works? The result wold be very interesting to know.

-Skel-

[wlesmana]

If you remove the "prec" then they'd turn into velites. You will need to modify formations, where all light/heavy non-missile units are all set to "non skirmish" mode and stand their ground.

Another option is to turn auto fire on on all units. But this still won't affect the fact that they'd throw their pilla before a charge.

[fallen851]

Umm I already tried the change, they throw both pilums then charge, no skirmishing on the AI's part.


The problem is the AI lines up all its unit (hasti, principes and tritarii [sorry for butchering the spelling) in one big line, then send them at me. No tactics anymore, but it does use the Pilums...

[fallen851]

So to make this more clear, I want to know if this is a formation problem? Is the AI lining up the units like skirmishers before they battle (they don't use them like skirmishers, they throw the pilums and then charge).

To test this simply open your existing "export_descr_unit" text file, scroll down to anyone of the Roman units, and remove the "prec".

Here it is on my system, you could cut and paste this over your file (back up your export_descr_unit file first), but the balancing below is a mixture for the mod I'm create, and it slows down the killing, as well as giving more moral, and extends the range of the pilums.

type roman princeps
dictionary roman_principes ; Principes
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy_1
soldier roman_principes, 40, 0, 1.3
officer roman_early_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 11, 2, pilum, 50, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.75
stat_pri_attr thrown ap
stat_sec 7, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,0.75
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 8, 5, 5, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 16
stat_ground 4, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 10, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 490, 170, 50, 80, 490
ownership romans_julii,romans_brutii,romans_scipii,romans_senate

I'd also like to mention that this system works wonders for the player, you can now throw your pilums much quicker, as the units march into battle with the pilums ready. You also are not forced to charge after dispensing your pilums.

[PROMETHEUS]

to make them fire faster you need to change the animation ....

[DimeBagHo]

So to make this more clear, I want to know if this is a formation problem?

The short answer is yes. In descr_formations_ai.txt there is a special formation for precursor heavy armies. If you take away the prec attribute this formation is not used, so the game defaults to the basic formation which is just a big long line.

[fallen851]

to make them fire faster you need to change the animation ....

That isn't entirely true...

My units go into battle with the pilums in hand, rather than their gladius. Thus, they don't have to stop and pull out their pilums (this part, when they stop, stand their, then the pilums magically appear, takes a lot of time!), they just stand and throw.

It is faster, try it.

[fallen851]

The short answer is yes. In descr_formations_ai.txt there is a special formation for precursor heavy armies. If you take away the prec attribute this formation is not used, so the game defaults to the basic formation which is just a big long line.

Ok so I'm assuming this is it:

;****************************************************************
;Special formation for romans, and others with precursor weapons
;2 lines of inf cav on the wings
;****************************************************************

begin_formation ai_precursor_line

;;; purpose flags
;attack
defend

ai_priority 2.0

; Screen of missile inf
begin_block 0
unit_type missile infantry 1.0
unit_density close
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 0 0.0 0.0
inter_unit_spacing 2.0
priority 1.0
end_block

;; First line of infantry
begin_block 1
min_units 3
unit_type light infantry 1.0
unit_type heavy_pilum_infantry 0.9
unit_density close
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 0 0.0 -7.0
inter_unit_spacing 10.0
priority 1.0
end_block

;; second line of infantry
begin_block 2
min_units 3
unit_type heavy_pilum_infantry 1.0
unit_type light_pilum_infantry 0.9
unit_density close
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 1 0.0 -10.0
inter_unit_spacing 10.0
priority 1.0
end_block

;; 3rd line of infantry
begin_block 3
min_units 2
unit_type general_unit 1.0
unit_type heavy infantry 0.4
unit_type spearmen 1.0
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 2 0.0 -10.0
inter_unit_spacing 10.0
priority 0.5
end_block

;; Archers behind
begin_block 4
unit_type ranged_missile_infantry 1.0
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 3 0.0 -10.0
inter_unit_spacing 3.0
priority 1.0
end_block

;; artillery and handlers at the back
begin_block 5
unit_type handler 1.0
unit_type siege 1.0
unit_type any 0.01
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 4 0.0 -20.0
inter_unit_spacing 2.0
priority 0.5
end_block

begin_dummy_block 6
spans 1 2 3 4
end_dummy_block


What do I need to change so that it works properly with "prec" attribute removed?

Thanks for any and all help.

[Red Harvest]

Later in the battle, when you want to order them to attack, they stand around trying to find their pilums, the enemy begins engaging them hand to hand, and they throw their pilums at point blank range.... how accurate.

Actually, they can halt a charge cold that way and inflict very high casualties. This quirk has been around for quite awhile, but when being charged the pila wielder creates what amounts to a wall, then they hurl their pila point blank inflicting very high casualties. Doesn't make sense but that is what happens. I'm not sure where they must be in the animation for it to have this effect, but it is very noticeable 1vs1.

Right now in 1.3 the pila system sucks because the AI doesn't even use them.

[fallen851]

Actually, they can halt a charge cold that way and inflict very high casualties. This quirk has been around for quite awhile, but when being charged the pila wielder creates what amounts to a wall, then they hurl their pila point blank inflicting very high casualties. Doesn't make sense but that is what happens. I'm not sure where they must be in the animation for it to have this effect, but it is very noticeable 1vs1.

Right now in 1.3 the pila system sucks because the AI doesn't even use them.

Yeah I've noticed that, but I was speaking about when you order a Legion to attack enemies a good distance away. I've modified the pila range so if I forgot to hold down alt, instead of charging they begin searching for their pila.

Anyways, does anyone know what to edit with the AI formations? If I can get them into formation, I think this (removing prec) will be a method of getting the AI to use their pila. The only problem will be is that the Roman units with spears (those who don't throw pila) will advance while the others throw their pila, thus the spear units will be first into battle, and that isn't desireable. This should be able to be fixed by putting them in the rear of the formation though.