Death crash teenagers identified

[ShadesWolf]

Views Please

Details are emerging about five teenagers killed when a stolen car crashed in East Sussex on Saturday.
Kelly Goring, 17, Daniel Carwardine and Danielle Martin, both 16, and Barrie Mackay and Lee Morgan, both 15, died in the smash, which involved a police car.

It has been revealed there was no impact between the police vehicle and the stolen car, which was a Metro.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) is investigating because of the police involvement.

Lee Carwardine, the father of Daniel, said all the families who lost children in the crash were "heartbroken".

"It's just like a nightmare," said Mr Carwardine.

"I just want someone to wake me up. And it's not just me, it's four other families as well."

Mr Carwardine described his son, a trainee mechanic from St Leonards, as a good boy.

He said he first became worried when his son failed to return home on Friday night.

"I heard about the crash on the radio and went down to the scene and my stomach turned. I just knew he was involved and my heart missed a beat."

The accident happened at 0142 BST on Battle Road, St Leonards.

Police officers in a marked vehicle made contact with the Metro two minutes before the crash.

The IPCC has refused to confirm whether the car was stolen, but the car's owner, Matthew Baker, from St Leonards, East Sussex, told BBC South East Today it was taken from his house.

Mr Baker said his father noticed his car had been taken at about 0630 BST.

Michelle O'Callaghan, who runs a local video store in Battle Road, added: "Teenagers have been coming in all day saying the car was stolen and that the police were chasing them."

The car hit a lamppost, three walls and another car parked on a driveway.

IPCC deputy commissioner Mike Franklin described the incident as a "terrible, terrible accident", but would not say whether or not officers in a marked patrol car were involved in a chase with the Metro.

He said: "We are keeping an open mind at this stage. We understand that they (officers) were at the accident scene very quickly so they could not have been far away.

"This tragedy is extremely distressing for everybody involved, The investigation into the circumstances has been continuing throughout the weekend and I will ensure that we get to the bottom of what happened and why."

[ShadesWolf]

OK please be careful how you answer this. I will ask for the thread to be closed if I feel it is getting out of hand

My initial thoughts are if they had not stolen the car then would still be alive, I also am glad that they did not kill anybody else. But I do feel it is a waste of life. But I do find it difficult to understand why they would steal somebodies car. I have never been able to understand what makes joyriders tick. I quite regulary see burnt out cars on the way into Birmingham and I am always asking myself why ?

The second thought I had is how should the Police be handling this. I expect that they will get the blame in some quarters for chasing the stolen car, but what are they expected to do. How should they handle this differently, or should they

Any comments please

[Redleg]

Easy - let the investigation run its due course. If the vehicle was stolen - then its the fault of the people who stole the vehicle. If the vehicle was not stolen - then it gets more complex - does it not?

Edit: wanted to add - do the police there have rules regarding chasing stolen vehicles or criminals that are using high speeds to evade the police?

However from the description in the story - which most likely lacks the information that the police are looking at to determine cause - it does indeed seem to be the fault of the individual who stole the vehicle.

[Adrian II]

"It's just like a nightmare," said Mr Carwardine. "I just want someone to wake me up."

Tough luck. Mr Carwardine should have woken up earlier...

[Tribesman]

What sort of idiot steals a Metro ?????

[Templar Knight]

Yea poor choice of car but maybe it was the only one the trainee mechanic could get into?

[Geoffrey S]

What a waste. I wonder how the police investigation will develop, and how it will be viewed by the families and public. With the information given I'd say it's lucky no-one else was hurt by the joyriders.

If the vehicle was stolen - then its the fault of the people who stole the vehicle. If the vehicle was not stolen - then it gets more complex - does it not?

The kids weren't allowed to drive legally regardless of whether it was stolen or not; it doesn't look like any of them were over 18.

[InsaneApache]

You can legally drive in the UK at 17.

[yesdachi]

What sort of idiot steals a Metro ?????

That was my fist thought, too!



Anyway, you play you pay. Can’t die in a stolen car if you don’t ever steel a car.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

If the vehicle was stolen, I daresay they had it coming. If not, it is a tragedy but there is nothing we can do as of now.

[Tribesman]

do the police there have rules regarding chasing stolen vehicles or criminals that are using high speeds to evade the police?
Yep descisions are taken in regards to whether a pursuit would be more dangerous to the general public than the need to catch the criminals .
Since it appears (so far) that the police only spotted the car 2 minute before the crash was there enough time to ascertain that danger ?
The Metro is a small car (a real crapheap to be precise) that is designed as a runabout , it is not stable at speed and 5 young adults in the car would have added to the instability without even taking into consideration the probable inexperience of the driver .

[Redleg]

do the police there have rules regarding chasing stolen vehicles or criminals that are using high speeds to evade the police?
Yep descisions are taken in regards to whether a pursuit would be more dangerous to the general public than the need to catch the criminals .
Since it appears (so far) that the police only spotted the car 2 minute before the crash was there enough time to ascertain that danger ?

Two minutes is both a lifetime and two short of a time when under stress - hard one to say - but it beginning to sound more of the fault of the driver of the car then anything the police did or did not do.

The Metro is a small car (a real crapheap to be precise) that is designed as a runabout , it is not stable at speed and 5 young adults in the car would have added to the instability without even taking into consideration the probable inexperience of the driver .

That again compounds the issue toward the driver of the vehicle and his actions verus what the police might have done in pursueing the vehicle to apprend the young teenagers while they were in the midst of their mischief.

DEATH not= STEAL. If in the process the police interveins and because of this intevention is that they end up dead, then that's another matter.

The police can not protect everyone from their own stupidity.

[Papewaio]

As long as the police didn't force them off the road then the criminals are responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

However it should be reviewed to see if things could be done better in the future. Unless the death penalty exists for stealing vehicles then what happened to them is out of proportion to the crime. Note though it was the criminals who self adminstrated their punishment not the police.

It was their lives to choose. One of the issues is they are all young adults, who aren't considered mature enough to vote or do many other things in adult society. Their lack of maturity lead them to choose an action which consequence I doubt they were fully aware of. But is this societies fault for not prosecuting young offenders to the full extent of the law. They probably thought as juvs they would have got a slap on the wrist. Maybe the lack of discipline from society, family and self are ultimately responsible. I would rate the last two as key.

[Soulforged]

The police can not protect everyone from their own stupidity.

Agree Red, but I didn't put the blame on the "dogs". I just don't like people saying they saw it coming, or they brought it upon themselves. The fact that they've stolen it, or even hitted someone doesn't turns it in a lesser tragedy.
Though I must say, if you forgive me, that you seem to have a tendence to defend the cops.