The Inquisition

[miho]

This thread is about the real inquisition and about the medieval one. So the inquisitions are the worst thing that Catholic Church has ever done. Why? Well they burned and in other ways killed surely about 1000000 people, mostly women. Once someone was accused they very rarely evaded death. When someone was accused there was no fair trial. The accused were tortured in many ways to admit that they were witches. They even had a test to prove if someone was a witch. They would put the victim (the accused) under water with a rock or something tied to them. If they would manage to somehow swim out they were later burned. And if they drowned it was a proof that they were "normal". The Inquisitors caused people to fear them. I'm not so sure they ever killed a king or someone of noble birth but they burned peasants for fun. So think of this next time you use inquisitors and enjoy burning other generals. I admit that it can be fun and easy to play with them but it sure wasn't fun in the Medieval times.

[lilljonas]

Neither were the taxation systems fair, the legal systems just or the wars humanitarian. I have a hard time figuring out anything that were "fun" from all points of views when it comes to M:TW.

If you are interested in European religious atrocities, it stays nasty throughout the Renaissance, with the Huguenot wars as a sad example of the frequent battles between the Protestants and Catholics.

[sbroadbent]

This thread is about the real inquisition and about the medieval one. So the inquisitions are the worst thing that Catholic Church has ever done. Why? Well they burned and in other ways killed surely about 1000000 people, mostly women. Once someone was accused they very rarely evaded death. When someone was accused there was no fair trial. The accused were tortured in many ways to admit that they were witches. They even had a test to prove if someone was a witch. They would put the victim (the accused) under water with a rock or something tied to them. If they would manage to somehow swim out they were later burned. And if they drowned it was a proof that they were "normal". The Inquisitors caused people to fear them. I'm not so sure they ever killed a king or someone of noble birth but they burned peasants for fun. So think of this next time you use inquisitors and enjoy burning other generals. I admit that it can be fun and easy to play with them but it sure wasn't fun in the Medieval times.

Not to mention that were supposedly tortured to reveal the names of other witches. One person might be named as a witch and under torture would implicate 20 other people, who would then subsequently be tortured and each might implicate another series of people. Keep repeating this over again, and it's quite easy to see how it went out of control.

[Weebeast]

Sad thing is even after people found a new world of America for a purpose of being 'pure' there were still religious atrocities.

Not to mention that were supposedly tortured to reveal the names of other witches.

...which were pretty much random because they didn't know who were the witches lol.

[miho]

battles between the Protestants and Catholics.

There were also battles between the protestants and the Puritans.

The Catholic Church did much more monstosities but the inquisition is the worst. They also were the richest in the middle ages because many people would donate them land in order to save their souls and peasants had to give the chuch a percentage of their belongings. For example if they had 10 cows they would have to give one to the church. The priests were uneducated and they sold the forgiveness of sins. When you went to confess you had to pay for it depending of your sins.

I have a hard time figuring out anything that were "fun" from all points of views when it comes to M:TW.

Those were pretty hard times to live in unless you were a noble.

[MuseRulez]

The priests were uneducated and they sold the forgiveness of sins. When you went to confess you had to pay for it depending of your sins.

It gets even better, you could also pay ahead. An example: you have plans to murder someone. You go to church and confess you plans to the priest. Pay him a good amount of gold and you would get a note which said that you were forgiven. The Church made a fortune this way.

[miho]

Well killing a man wasn't such a big crime unless he was someone influential. Stealing was considered to a be worse crime than killing. And poaching was strictly prohibited too. Can you imagine that if you get caught killing an animal you might be hanged, while if you get caught killing a man you only needed to pay a fine to the family of the deceased. And paying wasn't obligatory, but if you didn't pay you and your family would be excommunicated and would most likely be lynched.

[Mithrandir]

Moved to Monastery (Historical Discussions).

[Brutus]

May I remark here and now that the Inquisition and here mentioned witch trails are not exactly the same. Witch trails were held by Catholics and Protestants alike and lasted well into the 18th century, when the Inquisition had stopped functioning (although in name, it exists till this very day). The inquistion was essentially about bringing people who had 'strayed from the right path' back on track. It's sole purpose therefore wasn't burning people, but redeeming their souls. Most people questioned before an Inquisition court therefore were let off with minor public penances (like wearing a mark on one's clothes for a period of time) or prison sentences. It was only a minority that was burned (usually after they had redeemed themselves, but their crimes were considered to great to be let off easy) and NEVER by the church itself. The church had no real jurisdiction over lay people. If one was quilty of heresy, he/she was given over to lay jurisdiction and it was they who then burned people. Also, 'the Inquisition' wasn't active everywhere. The infamous Spanish Inquisition is one of the few really active before the Renaissance (and that one was about finding relapsed Jews ands Muslims). With some inquistionary courts temporarily existing in for example southern France (e.g. against the Cathars. For an account, read Montaillou by E. Le Roy Ladurie). Most lay rulers and laws forbade the inquisition elsewhere.

Burning peasants for fun seems to me a statement like: "OMG all medieval people were monstrous barbarians with the IQ of a stegosaur". This is absolutely not true. There probably were some executioners who liked their job a little too much but I doubt inquisitors (who weren't executioners, but very educated men, mostly) were enjoying the prospect of 'the smell of roast peasant in the morning'.

About paying a fine to the family of someone you murdered, that may have been so for some regions in some period, but certainly not for all. Murder was most certainly punishable by death in many regions. The system you describe seems to be that of feuding which was considered a pain by many and became obsolete in most regions as the Middle Ages progressed.

[Adrian II]

It was only a minority that was burned (usually after they had redeemed themselves, but their crimes were considered to great to be let off easy) and NEVER by the church itself. The church had no real jurisdiction over lay people.

Exactly. And the number of one million victims mentioned by original poster belongs to the realm of mythology rather than history, much like the supposedly huge numbers of victims of the Crusades, the French Revolution and some other turbulent historic episodes.

The records of the Spanish inquisition for instance, which are quite accurate for the age, indicate that between 1540 and 1700 throughout the entire Spanish realm about 700 people were burned or otherwise executed out of nearly 50.000 cases dealt with by Spanish inquisitors.

[Sigurd]

I second what Brutus and AdrianII said, and will like to add that the Inquisition compared to the secular courts of the same time were like night and day.
The brutality and injustice of the secular court was a stark contrast to the Inquisition with their modern-way courts that had judge, jury, prosecutor and defender.
Some authors on the subject have said that it was English propaganda against Spain during their war that black-painted the Catholic Church and her Inquisition(Spanish)... and I tend to agree.

[Emerald Wolf]

I would though add that it is quite accurate that Inquisitors were quite guilty of heinous torture in "investigating" heresies. Also as per Burtus' comment about in name still existing... close. The inquisition was officially dissolved in 1971 shorlty after many of the reforms of Vatican II went into effect.

[Brutus]

I would though add that it is quite accurate that Inquisitors were quite guilty of heinous torture in "investigating" heresies.

Yes, but let's not forget that torture was regarded as a legitimate means of interrogation, used by lay and ecclastical courts alike (though always carried out by laymen). So the inquisition was by no means unique in this respect.

Also as per Burtus' comment about in name still existing... close. The inquisition was officially dissolved in 1971 shorlty after many of the reforms of Vatican II went into effect.

Actually, I believe the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, of which Joseph Ratzinger was prefect before he became pope, is the same office as the Inquistion, though renamed.

[Duke Malcolm]

Yes, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was known as the Sacred Congregation for the Universal Inquisition until sometime last century.

I was a Grand Inquisitor once... We went around saying "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" before swiftly erecting a stake and burning people at it...
A few friends and I are thinking of going to a local cultist heretical church dressed as Inquisitors on behalf of the Holy Inquisition of the City of Dundee...

[Brutus]

I was a Grand Inquisitor once... We went around saying "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" before swiftly erecting a stake and burning people at it...
A few friends and I are thinking of going to a local cultist heretical church dressed as Inquisitors on behalf of the Holy Inquisition of the City of Dundee...

Poke her with the soft cushions!

[Watchman]

In the context of its times the Inquisition wasn't all that bad a bunch - for one they tended to require some decent proof of guilt, which wasn't exactly a consistent line among temporal courts... They also tended to be fairly lenient all things considered - most of the people investigated (and not found guilty) were eventually sentenced to some suitable methods of penance if they admitted the error of their ways and repented. Torture was normally only resorted to if less drastic investigative measures were stymied (and this might take up to a year...), and even when used tended to be frankly bland and unimaginative. Particularly in comparision to the disquieting inventiveness shown by the temporal authorities, but then again they normally used torture as a form of public corporal punishement (ie. cautionary example; the common folk tended to consider it a good show...) whereas the Inquisitors were actually trying to interrogate someone instead.

Anyway, most of the time they concentrated on chasing after heretics, apostates and the like, which isn't exactly surprising if you remember that the Inquisitors' main job was in practice the upholding of Catholic institutions and faith. The pre-Reformation Church was actually a fairly laid-back outfit - so long as you paid your dues and didn't try to challenge them in some fashion, they didn't actually care too much of what you did or believed in.

Start trying to tear down their cozy little setup, though, and the worst-case result would be Cathar Wars and Albiguensian Crusades...

Anyway, whatever debatable good the Reformation did it most certainly ushered in some one and half hundred years of near-universal religious fanaticism, persecution, atrocity and general unpleasantness that didn't really quiet down before the mind-bogglingly destructive Thirty Years' War which was in many ways extreme enough to make all but the fringe loons take a step back and seriously reconsider.

As a side note, witch-hunting tended to be more of a King Mob and local authority pursuit. They tended to be the ones to pay the professional with hunters too, who as they were paid by the number of witches found andto boot tended to get the choicest pickings of the late sinners' worldly possessions had a certain incentive to be excessively competent... Most of the time if an Inquisitor or just plain higher temporal authorities got involved - ie. someone actually studied the charges, suspect and evidence with any detail - the suspected witch ended up walking away a free man or woman due to massively insufficient proof. Heck, the first serious investigation into the phenomenom of witches et all was by a Spanish Inquisitor who went around for quite a while doing research and ended up with the conclusion it was so much superstition and hysteria... However, the Inquisition was anything bu a monolithic organisation and the views of its local and individual representatives naturally varied widely; there was certainly no shortage of fanatical arsonists in the ranks either.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Just a few points.

1. The Spanish Inquisition was a state institution established by the Spanish monarchy and not by the Church.

2. Witches, at least in England, were hanged. Heretics were burned.

3. In medieval England, your chances if accused of witchcraft were quite good. An acquittal rate of 95%.

4. Laws banning witchcraft under pain of death, predate Christianity. Indeed when converting Northern Europe, the church granted protection against charges of Witchcraft. The 5th century Synod of St. Patrick ruled that "A Christian who believes that there is a vampire in the world, that is to say, a witch, is to be anathematized; whoever lays that reputation upon a living being shall not be received into the Church".

5. The peak in witch trials - "The Burning Times" - 1550-1650 - occurred after the Reformation, when the Church's authority had been weakened.

6. In countries like Italy and Spain, where the Catholic Church and its Inquisition reigned virtually unquestioned, witch hunting was uncommon.