I guess it is time to ask...

**Divinus Arma** · 11-01-2005, 08:27

Well, I have stayed out of the colosseum for a while now. Seems I spend most of my TW time on EB or the occasional backroom post.

Well, anyway, I thought I would pop my little head in here and see what the verdict is on BI. I'm sure it has already been asked and gone over again and again. I just wanted to give it a month and wait until any serious buggys got spotted.

So, humor me. I'm thinking of buying it in a week or two. What do you fine and noble people think of BI?

**Yun Dog** · 11-01-2005, 08:38

Well, I havent played it to death... but I guess I can comment, Downunder we only got about 2 weeks ago

Graphics, some of the skins look cool, and the night battles are a nice touch

The horde ability adds some unknown elements to how the games going to pan out, and has some good entertainment value going on the horde yourself.

The game is harder related primarily to the combination of:
money, alot harder to make enough income to buy the buildings and men youd like
this goes hand in hand with a harder to please populace which take some suppression but then the garrisons hurt economically.

and the feed back of these elements with the possibility of a large stack of men or two turning up without calling first and eating all your food and taking your women.

as a measure I havent won one yet

and RTW I won almost all my games, that I could be bothered

**Kekvit Irae** · 11-01-2005, 09:01

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=55685

It's a good read, up until the point where it becomes yet another lame Monastery debate over the dark ages and Christianity.

**Divinus Arma** · 11-01-2005, 09:49

so, I have heard alot about this horde feature here and there.

From what I understand, if you take a barbarian faction's last city, then they go into horde mode. Or they might horde just for giggles. Either way, once they horde, they get like two or three full stacks of mixed unit types. Is that correct?

What's the big deal about two or three full stacks? Normally you could easily wax a couple of stacks with just a 3/4 stack of decent units.

And also, what happens to the city if they pack up? Does it go rebel on you?

What happens when the horde takes a city? Do they lose all the units or just some or what?

And what's with brie cheese, anyway? It has a skin, but yet it's kinda slimy under the skin. Who's great idea was that?

**Brutus** · 11-01-2005, 12:42

Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

so, I have heard alot about this horde feature here and there.

From what I understand, if you take a barbarian faction's last city, then they go into horde mode. Or they might horde just for giggles. Either way, once they horde, they get like two or three full stacks of mixed unit types. Is that correct?

Depending on the settlements' size (apparently), they will get about 3 to 6 full stacks of 'horde' units mixed with some regular units they already had and that escaped the carnage. They will spawn some distance away of the army that took their last settlement. Also, horde and regular units don't cost upkeep as long as a faction is in horde mode (though mercenaries do).

What's the big deal about two or three full stacks? Normally you could easily wax a couple of stacks with just a 3/4 stack of decent units.

Well, it's just many when you're unprepared. The Huns and Vandals start out as (very large) hordes and might (most likely will) push other factions into horde mode too. So there go the Sarmatians, Roxolani and Goths as well, not uncommonly followed by the Alamannii, Burgundii, Lombardii, Ostrogoths (if they rebel from the Goths) or Franks (the Saxons can't horde). Finally later in the game, the Slavs will appear out of the blue to rock things a bit further. If you're a settled faction and there are suddenly about 3 or 4 hordes of 3 to 5 stacks at your doorstep, it's not that easy anymore.

And also, what happens to the city if they pack up? Does it go rebel on you?

It goes to the faction that just conquered it, which can choose if it's a horde to settle it or sack it (which means they strip it of all it's money, kill all people and ruin most buildings), after which it indeed goes rebel.

What happens when the horde takes a city? Do they lose all the units or just some or what?

A horde loses about a third of their horde units after they take their first city, about half when they take their second city, and all horde units left are gone when they take a third city. Generals and regular units remain, of course.

And what's with brie cheese, anyway? It has a skin, but yet it's kinda slimy under the skin. Who's great idea was that?

Brie originated in the French region of Brie (roughly corresponding to the modern département of Seine-et-Marne). According to Wikipedia:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Brie de Meaux, manufactured outside of Paris since the 8th century, was originally known as the "King's Cheese" (later, following the French Revolution, the "King of Cheeses") and was enjoyed by the peasantry and nobility alike.

**dismal** · 11-01-2005, 15:38

Another big difference is that the Roman cities are big and their empires large from the beginning.

This means as a non-Roman, you face a steady stream of top Roman troops from the beginning of the game. I have been playing a Saxon game where I have to fight off a decent roman army (some with 3-4 legionary first cohort units) every turn.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 11-01-2005, 16:51

.
My verdict:

.

**Dutch_guy** · 11-01-2005, 17:53

well did you like RTW ?

if did ,you should buy it, Bi enhances the game in many ways.

iy you did not like RTW, then you should try BI, since, well it makes rtw a better game, I would buy it.

**Divinus Arma** · 11-03-2005, 03:20

So would most agree with the if-you-like-rtw-buy-it and thumbs-asessment?

btw: thanks for the hefty info brutus. Your point on 3-5 full stacks x # of hordeing (sic?) factions was well made.

**econ21** · 11-03-2005, 14:24

Yes, personally I think it is a good expansion and it seems to have been well received here (better than RTW which got slammed by a lot of patrons).

Since you can get the patch independently of the expansion, it's not a must buy in the way that VI was. Given that, what you are buying is just the new campaign, but that is better than the VI and MI ones IMO. It's a biggie - almost on the same scale as RTW itself in - 100 years, many different factions. It's harder, because the factions are more "good to go" with decent armies/tech/economies and hording, as discussed, makes for unpredictable challenges.

You might want to read the BI PBM thread in the Throne Room for some taste of an ERE game. TinCow did great holding off the Huns and Goths, but he had the advantage of mainly defending bridges and even then lost one battle when attrition just wore his army down (the Hordes have a lot of archers, so you do lose men however well you play).

The balance of arms seems to have changed a little - I am not sure to what extent this is just BI or the patch. Cavalry have been toned down a little, as have missiles but all three arms (cav, missiles, infantry) still have a role to play. The player getting very high star generals seems less common too - at least as Romans, because your fighting generals quicky become useless due to disloyalty.

BI also seems to have caused rather less offense to the historically minded than RTW did, although there are the odd few naff units. Playing WRE and ERE, trying to hold the line against the barbarian hordes certainly felt pretty authentic to me.

**Trithemius** · 11-04-2005, 00:53

Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

BI also seems to have caused rather less offense to the historically minded than RTW did, although there are the odd few naff units. Playing WRE and ERE, trying to hold the line against the barbarian hordes certainly felt pretty authentic to me.

Except that it tends to go better than it did? :)

**Divinus Arma** · 11-04-2005, 05:07

Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

Yes, personally I think it is a good expansion and it seems to have been well received here (better than RTW which got slammed by a lot of patrons).

Since you can get the patch independently of the expansion, it's not a must buy in the way that VI was. Given that, what you are buying is just the new campaign, but that is better than the VI and MI ones IMO. It's a biggie - almost on the same scale as RTW itself in - 100 years, many different factions. It's harder, because the factions are more "good to go" with decent armies/tech/economies and hording, as discussed, makes for unpredictable challenges.

You might want to read the BI PBM thread in the Throne Room for some taste of an ERE game. TinCow did great holding off the Huns and Goths, but he had the advantage of mainly defending bridges and even then lost one battle when attrition just wore his army down (the Hordes have a lot of archers, so you do lose men however well you play).

The balance of arms seems to have changed a little - I am not sure to what extent this is just BI or the patch. Cavalry have been toned down a little, as have missiles but all three arms (cav, missiles, infantry) still have a role to play. The player getting very high star generals seems less common too - at least as Romans, because your fighting generals quicky become useless due to disloyalty.

BI also seems to have caused rather less offense to the historically minded than RTW did, although there are the odd few naff units. Playing WRE and ERE, trying to hold the line against the barbarian hordes certainly felt pretty authentic to me.

Thanks for the info. And the brie?