Pictures from Iran

[Fragony]

Religion of peace mon derriere, when muslims talk about peace they talk about islam, islam is peace after all. In other words: convert or feel steel.

[SomeNick]

You expected him to be a hippi then ? With long blonde hair and flower-pattern tight dresses ?

Struggle was destined for the survival and spreading of Islam. You can not take the whole thing along your very narrow point of view without reading the Kuran teaching the peace.

Strange to say that "you should not fight if you want peace".. Funny indeed.. What about USA then ? Are you in favor of that or opposing it ?

This has nothing to do with you though, if you are not flexible with your ideas and locked 'n loaded with 9/11, Moslems=Terrorists stuff.. Go live with it (and take up a good history book to find out what did happen for what reason)..

Oh...I've read about the historical ramifications and foundings of that particular religion.

And, no, I don't agree with or believe 'all' the muslim=terrorist junk.

Different times different cultures. Sometimes one has to ascertain the viablility of old practices and their place in modern culture.

Those that impose them as truth upon others, and the only truth, even when so blindingly obvious of it's danger, do it for personal gain I think you will find.


And that's all I'm saying in this thread.

[Major Robert Dump]

Should have stayed with a low carb diet

[bmolsson]

So if I get it correctly. A car run over a boys arm and its all because Islam is an awful religion. Interesting logic.......

[Radier]

If it some sort of streatperformence I apologize. I didn´t know that.

I still can't load the page, actually.

It should work...

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Turkey is the land of 70 million people of which % 95 Muslim population exist...

Islam is the religion of peace, and so are the others.. Allah has nothing to prove over your wretched prejudice and ignorance..

Yeah you seems to be very civiliced and peaceful over there... 35 000 turks converted to christanity last year and thay were not treated good at all IIRC. What do the Qur'an tell us what to do with those who convert from Islam now again?

[bmolsson]

What do the Qur'an tell us what to do with those who convert from Islam now again?

They are not allowed to get on the flight to Mecca ??

[Radier]

They are not allowed to get on the flight to Mecca ??

If it only was that good.

Didn´t you in Indonesia have those beheadings of christian girls a time ago? What was the reaction in the country? (Just curious )

[bmolsson]

If it only was that good.

Didn´t you in Indonesia have those beheadings of christian girls a time ago? What was the reaction in the country? (Just curious )

The police arrested 18 members of the sect accused. During the raid against the islamic sect 3 police officers and 5 sect members where killed.

Just as a note, the local islamic authorities are demanding death penalty for all terrorists.

But of course, these are no interesting news.......

[Fragony]

Just as a note, the local islamic authorities are demanding death penalty for all terrorists.

But of course, these are no interesting news.......

Indeed, they always demand death penalty.

[doc_bean]

Turkey is the land of 70 million people of which % 95 Muslim population exist...

Islam is the religion of peace, and so are the others.. Allah has nothing to prove over your wretched prejudice and ignorance..

For those who take psychological abuse for light and think that you have to break one's arm in order to hurt :

I heard that in Turkey, if a woman gets raped, she has to marry the rapist. Not sure if this is better than what happens in Iran...

[Bartix]

They aren’t allowed to kill children under the age of 18 (at least officially). But some teenage ‘criminals’ are kept in juvenile prison until they’re old enough to be killed by the mullahs.

Same as USA, no?

[Brutus]

Without wanting to become involved in the Islam-discussion itself, has anyone read the forumposts on the same site?

I'm an Iranian and I've seen these pictures in a report in a local newspaper before.
It's not a 'punishment' or anything like that. If it was a punishment they wouldn't put the soft thing under the boy's arm.

According to the report, the man in the picture is making a show of the boy's abilities just to make money from the people standing there. This is their everyday activity. Very Very sorrowing.

Please be careful not to post anything that you don't have enough information about.
And don't post such things which are to make hate in the hearts of the people rather than sympathy.

I'm inclined to believe this. As other posters state: the man on the first picture is holding a microphone, the boys fist stays clenched (indicating that his arm doesn't break, and the car seems to lift from the ground riding over him. So if you have a problem with it, it should be because they are swindling the audience...

[Fragony]

I heard that in Turkey, if a woman gets raped, she has to marry the rapist. Not sure if this is better than what happens in Iran...

No shit????????????? And THAT is what the multicult wants to be part of europe? That is the sickest thing I have heard since raped women being stoned to death. Sorry Turkish orgers, but your country can never be part of us. Geez.

[Ser Clegane]

Before we jump to any conclusions about Turkish culture, I think it would be appropriate to provide a backup for such a statement.

"I heard that" seems a bit thin to base any condemnations on.

[LeftEyeNine]

PJ,

Why don't you open up a topic "I hate Islam" then ? We are forged in violence, torture and death. So that we must be opposed, I don't think The Org will prevent you from doing this ?

Why do I have to prove you something ? I don't want to sound like those communists I'm not ver fond of : "Did you ever read Koran?"

In a world where religions race - and you definitely contribute this - there will be no peace. We will be terrorists as long as we live. 'Cause it's you creating it with your red glasses.

[doc_bean]

I put in the "I heard" part for a reason, however, a quick google search gave me this :

A recent book on modern Turkey includes a commentary on sexual violence as part of an interview with the public prosecutor of a rural town:

"Ninety percent of the sex crimes are between men and women; ten percent may be men and men, but I've only heard of only one incident where a man has raped another man. The aim of our rapist is to marry, you see. There are times when people just want to satisfy their lust but more than sixty percent have the aim of marrying. Say a man took a woman, and the woman wanted it a bit, but she is too young, the man has to go to prison. That's the law: you go to prison for under-age sex.....If a man has kidnapped a woman, and then he marries her, and that is approved of by the parents, then it's OK. But if they divorce within five years then he is arrested for kidnapping. I think it's unfair. Of course, I could not say such things in court or I would be considered biased....There is, of course, wife beating, but it doesn't get reported because women tend to accept it in families of lower culture."24

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR440132004
has some nice stories too

and then:

In 2002, 546 rapists had their sentences cut by promising to marry their victims

and

Problems within the legal system are another obstacle for victims of sexual assault. Under the former Penal Code, a perpetrator could escape punishment by marrying the victim. This provision often placed high pressure on the victim to wed her rapist for the sake of family honor.

There's a lot more interesting stuff (imho) in the articles I linked. It seems like things might be improving, mostly due to pressure from the EU, but there's still a long way to go...

[Fragony]

PJ,

Why don't you open up a topic "I hate Islam" then ? We are forged in violence, torture and death. So that we must be opposed, I don't think The Org will prevent you from doing this ?

Why do I have to prove you something ? I don't want to sound like those communists I'm not ver fond of : "Did you ever read Koran?"

In a world where religions race - and you definitely contribute this - there will be no peace. We will be terrorists as long as we live. 'Cause it's you creating it with your red glasses.

So? Is it true what Docbean said?

With all respect, do you find it so hard to understand that some people are extremily wary of Islam? I have read some of the koran and didn't like what I see and I definatily don't like what it does to people. There is probably no peace because the koran seems little more then a soldiers handbook, explain the bigots among us what makes the islam so great; all I see are heads not being where they belong. If you ask me, for muslims there will only be peace when everyone has become muslim. I don't thrust you guys one bit.

[LeftEyeNine]

I heard that in Turkey, if a woman gets raped, she has to marry the rapist. Not sure if this is better than what happens in Iran...

Hearing BS and wanting to believe them is something we are already familiar with.

Did you hear the latest news doc_bean ? We're at your door to stone you since you are a Christian. A legal committee has just been prepared for you by the approval of Tayyip Erdogan.

Yeah you seems to be very civiliced and peaceful over there... 35 000 turks converted to christanity last year and thay were not treated good at all IIRC. What do the Qur'an tell us what to do with those who convert from Islam now again

Haha, like what.. Ah yes those we hung there in Izmir.. Yeah, every morning we go to Cumhuriyet Square where their dead bodies are hung and throw them eggs, you know..

Dear Patrons,

If you ever "hear" something about Turkey again, let's not pollute this beautfiul board. Please ask me about your very "hearings" at lefteyenine [at] yahoo dot com

Thank you.. Every message will be charged with a fee that can buy more AK-47s for our community.

[LeftEyeNine]

Originally Posted by http://www.stopvaw.org/Turkey.html
Problems within the legal system are another obstacle for victims of sexual assault. Under the former Penal Code, a perpetrator could escape punishment by marrying the victim. This provision often placed high pressure on the victim to wed her rapist for the sake of family honor.

That was an exploit in the legal code which has already been changed..

But I want to ask, what does it have to do with Islam?.. I mean Stop Violence Against Women is a human rights organization isn't it ? I can't see any one-on-one connection with women exposed to violence and Islam over there. You still think the way and relate things you'd like to see them together..

Violence against women in Turkey is debatable. Yes, there is, although waning dramatically day by day. Especially in the eastern parts, that's a common issue. You know "freedom fighters" turn back to their homes with a little bit of anger..

1- What does this violence against women issues has to do with Islam ? How do you relate according to those articles ?

2- Why would I like you being a Muslim, Fragony? It's all about your mentality and way of belief which does not bother me at all. Turkey is a 70-million-populated country where we peacefully live - where those social incidents are no more or less than any other peaceful one.

3- "Come and See" is a lot better way to know about something rather than "Hear and Accuse".

It's something like I'd be reading Das Kapital with my readily prejudice. If you read something that way - no matter who you are-, you can find so much to make fun of and oppose to.

Anyway, live your belief between yourself and God - where it actually is meant to be.

[Fragony]

Amnesty international doesn't seem to think it is bullshit Lefteyenine, and I rather believe Amnesty International then a country that still denies the mass murder of millions of christians in Armenia. What was it, an act of betrayal just bringing it up? I chose to believe it if you don't mind, given turkey's history and numerous muslim attacks all over the world I have little reason not to...

[LeftEyeNine]

Fragony

Get a history book.. Try to find my topic about Armenian Issue.. LEarn something new and unbiased..

Armenians were Armenians - not Christians. Ottoman Empire was a Muslim empire from the start. Strange that they noticed Armenians being Christians and decideed to massacre them in 1914. You believe what you want to believe..

Armenian Issue was an act of revenge. Before their relocation dictated by the Ottoman governemnt, the Tasnak Sutyan and other Armenian gangs have killed 514.000 Turks in Van, Erzurum and other surrounding places. And as soon as they were forced to move to Syria, they were murdered on their way.

You see that's a two-sided act where the firestarters are the Armenians.

One Turkish survivor of Armenian massacre against Turks start with these words : "They were good neighbors, kind people.." They were called Millet-i Sukun (Silent Nation) in general by Ottomans.

And you still come up with Armenian Genocide stuff in a topic about Shariia order (which I don't approve at all) ? What's next, you get the flu and blame us for that the curse of Armenians killed ?

[doc_bean]

Did you hear the latest news doc_bean ? We're at your door to stone you since you are a Christian. A legal committee has just been prepared for you by the approval of Tayyip Erdogan.

Let's face it, what I heard wasn't far from the truth, although things are changing (which i also mentioned).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Turkey joining the EU in the way that Fragony is, I just don't think the country is ready yet. And i hate it how the politicians keep rushing these things, it won't help anyone.

Turkey isn't the perfect example of enlightened Islam, there are a lot of archaic laws and customs still in place. And let's not forget that the Turkish military also has (had?) the duty to protect the country from itself, or at least from its most fundamentalist citizens.

[Fragony]

Get a history book..

I just learned where not to look for one.....

Armenian Issue was an act of revenge.

Just scratching the surface proves once again adequate. We have a long way to go my friend...

[LeftEyeNine]

doc_bean,

I'm against Turkey joining the EU. I don't like the way we have to prove out. Whatever it's the topic of another one.

Turkey is at least the best available example of already enlightened ISlam. I can never say Turkey is a country of welfare at all terms. We have a lot to do but this does give no one to draw the efforts into mud or interrupt with our internal mechanism (that was for some politicians)

Fragony

Yes, I bet you just learned that not everything Armeanians say is true.

Ok, i'm saying it was an act of revenge and blamed being primitive. Which galaxy is that are you living in where there are no wars, battles, no revenge, murders no blood ever spilled in any way ?

Then I would be called modern to admit a lie and say it was a Genocide ? I can't pick a point to start with you. Tell me you hate my sig, and the big picture is complete.

[Leet Eriksson]

Take it from me Lefteyenine. Don't bother arguing.

Can you take anyone seriously when some of them believe in these nutjobs?

http://www.reandev.com/taliban/

[Fragony]

Yes, I bet you just learned that not everything Armeanians say is true.

Ya, she told me she loved me.

Ok, i'm saying it was an act of revenge and blamed being primitive. Which galaxy is that are you living in where there are no wars, battles, no revenge, murders no blood ever spilled in any way ?

The one I am living in now, and I quite enjoy doing so. It is a shame that a certain religion doesn't really like peace and cannot wait to cut of my head because I don't believe in fairytales. Today, exactly 1 year ago one of us (van Gogh)got butchered because of the sick perverted thing that is Islam, we were doing fine untill then. Now that we know what we are dealing with, no more love.

Then I would be called modern to admit a lie and say it was a Genocide ? I can't pick a point to start with you. Tell me you hate my sig, and the big picture is complete.

I don't hate you, if you were ever to visit the Netherlands I wouldn't hesitate to invite you into my house. But that is the thing we small men can do, we don't have to deal with the bigger picture. Look at the bright side, most (and most means a lot) wouldn't take the time to have this conversation. I am not trying to not hurt your feelings, that is what hypocrites do.

[Leet Eriksson]

Hey lets blame islam becuase a muslim killed a dutch guy who called us all goat****ers.

Sorry for your loss fragony, Pim Fortuyn wasn't killed by a muslim btw.

EDIT: oh sorry i forgot the boards rules.

[Ser Clegane]

It is a shame that a certain religion doesn't really like peace and cannot wait to cut of my head because I don't believe in fairytales.

Funny ... when I spent a week in Dubai in September, the people there seemed quite peaceful and nobody attempted to cut off my head.

Perhaps it is that some people abuse Islam (or religion in general) instead of the other way around.

The broad brush some people here are using is exactly the same one that the extremists who claim to represent the Muslim world are using when they demonize the West.

Good job.

[LeftEyeNine]

because of the sick perverted thing that is Islam

This is insult...Reported..

don't hate you, if you were ever to visit the Netherlands I wouldn't hesitate to invite you into my house.

This is wisemouth talk. You call my belief sick and perverted but do not hesitate inviting me into your house ? What if I behead you in the middle of the night? You know my belief is sick and perverted and so am I.

But that is the thing we small men can do, we don't have to deal with the bigger picture. Look at the bright side, most (and most means a lot) wouldn't take the time to have this conversation.

You should have stopped having a conversation with me, conceited Dutch. Everytime you claimed something, you were turned down. That must be hard to accept.

I am not trying to not hurt your feelings, that is what hypocrites do.

Be yourself.. You call me sick and perverted but you do not hurt me at all ? "I hate you but in order to get on top, I welcome you" is an old forum trick. I'm sick and perverted but wise enough to figure out what you are doing. And I'm honest enough to say that if this is EU mentality in general, I hate Europeans. Got it ?

[Redleg]

So? Is it true what Docbean said?

With all respect, do you find it so hard to understand that some people are extremily wary of Islam? I have read some of the koran and didn't like what I see and I definatily don't like what it does to people.

You might want to stay away from several chapters in the Old Testiment then. There are some things in the Old Testiment that makes Islam seem peaceful.

But then that is why most Christians focus on the New Testiment - with only certain verus being used from the Old Testiment to support the sermon of the week.

There is probably no peace because the koran seems little more then a soldiers handbook, explain the bigots among us what makes the islam so great; all I see are heads not being where they belong. If you ask me, for muslims there will only be peace when everyone has become muslim. I don't thrust you guys one bit.

And given that statement - I guess you don't trust Christians all that much either?

Now I am playing an advocate here for a reason - Islam has its problems because of people - Christianity had a lot of the same problems many many years ago and several things have changed the religion to a more loving and peaceful religion in the context of the orginial message of Jesus Christ. However if you take a took at the more extreme sects of Christianity - some of them are no better then the extremists in the Muslem faith. The difference is that in Christian Faith those extremists are marginialized by the governments and other Christian. In many of the major Muslim countries the government uses the extremists to control the population because of their own desires and tryanny. (SP)

The Religion of Islam is still finding its way out of the trap of fundmental extremism it would seem to me.

Oh and I have read both the Bible and the Koran - and while I have problems with certain passages in the Koran - I have the same problem with certain Books and Chapters in the Old Testiment.