Riots in France?

[Redleg]

I just hate the television news - I just watched a news report talking about roits in France - they mentioned it was over some event involving the deaths of two teens and the police - but did not really cover that story or the riot. It was all of about 10 seconds on CNN. Edit: No wonder why I have come to detest the brain drain box.

Does anyone know what the story really was about...

[Devastatin Dave]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ance_rioting_3

[TinCow]

I'm sure some of our European friends can shed more light on the situation than me, but I'll give you what I know.

France has been having major social problems for a long time now due to the massive influx poor immigrants, mainly of North African and African descent. There are several areas of Paris in particular that are ghettos where these people live. They feel neglected by the French government and feel like they are being abused and exploited.

Unrest has been growing for a long time with several particular items contributing the most. The Headscarf Ban, though relatively accepted from what I hear now, provoked a feeling of discrimination amonst this largely muslim population. In addition there have been a string of deadly fires in the poor districts of Paris over the last six months or so. Many people have died and despite huge uproars and complaints over the safety of the buildings and the response of the fire department, the fires continued to happen and people continued to die.

The riots themselves were sparked after two local youths were electrocuted to death when they fled from police into an electrical relay station. Both sides have their own story as to why and how this happened, but it has taken on something of a Rodney King aspect to it for the locals. Protests turned violent and that's where we are today.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Notice how riots in europe's most anti-American pro-middle eastern nation (other than Turkey ) gets riots and America doesn't? Ironic, is it not?

Give a man an inch and he'll want to burn down your capital.

[Leet Eriksson]

I wouldn't call banning headscarves pro-middle east.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I wouldn't call banning headscarves pro-middle east.

Are they in the middle east, liberating nations, or just threatening the liberator of nations?

Enough said.

And I have a question. WHO GAVE THIS NATION NUKES? (France that is). I MEAN....WHO?

[Kralizec]

Are they in the middle east, liberating nations, or just threatening the liberator of nations?

Enough said.

And I have a question. WHO GAVE THIS NATION NUKES? (France that is). I MEAN....WHO?

The French government supported Saddam because it suited their purposes- not because they like Arabs (or Saddam, for that matter)

About who gave France nukes...that would be France. They developed their own under De Gaulle in the 60'ties if memory serves.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Notice how riots in europe's most anti-American pro-middle eastern nation (other than Turkey ) gets riots and America doesn't? Ironic, is it not?

Give a man an inch and he'll want to burn down your capital.

Kaiser:

Far be it from me to defend France, but America has had riots among the chronically under/un-employed. I don't know how frequent a problem it is for France, though we are fortunate here that such riots happen only once every 15-20 years.

On the other hand, riots in the USA were even rarer prior to the development of the "social safety net." Hmmm...

[AntiochusIII]

On the other hand, riots in the USA were even rarer prior to the development of the "social safety net." Hmmm...

What do you mean by that?

[Devastatin Dave]

What do you mean by that?

That socialism, like that in France, can cause more problems than what its worth. We here in the states are seeing the effects of "safety nets" with crim-infested cities, cities that are unlivable for working people as they are only a distribution center for governmental services. When you promise a chicken in every bowl then you need to ensure everyone gets a chicken. But obviously if those folks eating chicken notice that someone else is eating chicken with some extra trimmings, they get jealous, their sense of entitlemant grows, then they riot because they were not GIVEN what someone else has. Again, I can see where these people might have a gripe, but i don't think the rioting solves anything but just proves the point of people who are prejudiced towards immagrants. They can point and say, "See, i told you those people were no good". A vicious cycle for sure...

[Redleg]

Okay here is the news print story from the same Brain Drain Box cable station that ran the story

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/eu...ce.riots.reut/

[el_slapper]

Seen from France :

There has been problems in our "suburbs"(understand big, ugly buildings with zounds of flats) since the 70s. Poor tend to go there as it's too costly to go elsewhere, & most 1st generation immigrants tend to be poor.

So you have a different population stuck over there, poorer, & with a massive immigrant part. Add to it the myth that immigrants would "come back to their country" after a few years of making money(who would come back to a poor dictature with a failing health system? when living in France?), and you'll have a grasp upon the level of ignorance each part of the population hold the other one in.

The beginning of the story itself is really enlightening of our current mess. There is a burglary. It happens. Some cops come so see what's happening. Those 3 kids(and many others), not known of police, not criminals, not involved in the burglary, all honest, flee the police as if they were criminals. Then 2 of them die in an accident. And then Sarkozy the ******, our beloved minister of interior, did say they were criminals seeked for the burglary.....

Of course, they killed themselves. That's not their death that caused the riots - that's what's lying behind. Racism is an unfortunate truth in our country, & it's tougher to find a job when you're arab or black. That plus Sarkozy's agressive behaviour towards people living therein, & you have the ingredients for riots, & not only in Clichy-sous-Bois.

Myself did witness the behaviour of cops in the railway station. Me white have no problem. Blacks are, mmmmh, not that well treated. That's not really violence, just that they are far more annoyed. And it gets on their nerves. Same for arabs.

The "headscarf ban" in itself is just an example of misunderstanding between communities. The problem is deeper. And when my colleague in front of me says that Azouz Begag should not be allowed to be minister as he's arab, I fear we're not out of that mess

[BDC]

Myself did witness the behaviour of cops in the railway station. Me white have no problem. Blacks are, mmmmh, not that well treated. That's not really violence, just that they are far more annoyed. And it gets on their nerves. Same for arabs.

I saw this on my one train trip through France. I've no problems standing about looking suspicious, some black guy my age was being hastled by a bunch of transport police endlessly.

[Redleg]

Thanks el_slapper

The story as reported just didn't make sense - It seems France will be suffering from several problems for many years to come - until from what you described it fixes its immigrantion policies, and a few social ills that have developed over the years because of that. Or am I misreading what you stated?

[Radier]

Then comes the question, why do they take in so many immegrants? There is nothing possitive at all to build up ghettos in the suburbs. I say, those who riot shall imediatly be sent out from France.

This is the same think that happened in the immegrant ghetto of Ronna here in Sweden. Maybe worse...

[Meneldil]

Those 3 kids(and many others), not known of police, not criminals, not involved in the burglary, all honest, flee the police as if they were criminals. Then 2 of them die in an accident. And then Sarkozy the ******, our beloved minister of interior, did say they were criminals seeked for the burglary.....

Real proof of that ? As far as I know, nobody can say if they were involved with the burglary (sp?) or not. And after having worked with this kind of people for a few months, I wouldn't say they were honest
They were stupid, and they deserved to die. Pardon me, but I doubt they flee because they were innocent. And if they are stupid enough to die that way, that's their problem.

Of course, they killed themselves. That's not their death that caused the riots - that's what's lying behind. Racism is an unfortunate truth in our country, & it's tougher to find a job when you're arab or black. That plus Sarkozy's agressive behaviour towards people living therein, & you have the ingredients for riots, & not only in Clichy-sous-Bois.

Oh god, this is the kind of argument I hate. Do you think blacks and arabs have no problem when they want to find a job in other countries ? Now, go and try to find a job in Algeria if you're the average white-french guy. Good luck.
Racism works in the two way. Do you think the average french dislike these people because they are black, or arab ? I'd rather say they dislike them because they hate France, they hate the French, they don't give a crap about rapping a girl, beating to death an old guy because he took a photo of their neighbourhood, and so on. Now, I have no problem with a lot of arabs/blacks. I live in a village with a high non-white population, and there's no serious trouble here (although most of the problems are due to guess what, arab people). But the guys rioting in Clichy should just - at worst - be put in jail until the end of their lives, or - at best - be bombed back to the stone age.
Right now, these cities aren't part of France. They have their own laws, their own customs, and if you don't respect them, you ought to be beaten quite badly if you're lucky, or killed if you're unlucky.

[el_slapper]

Thanks el_slapper

The story as reported just didn't make sense - It seems France will be suffering from several problems for many years to come - until from what you described it fixes its immigrantion policies, and a few social ills that have developed over the years because of that. Or am I misreading what you stated?

Well, the problem lies in the 60's immigration. So no change in our current policies will fix the problem whatsoever. Most rioters were born in France, and for some of them their parents were.

We WILL be suffering problems. Meneldil is right too when he describes the problem - just that he sees that from an external point of view. Which is very different from my point of view - I tend to know some people from the "suburbs". And our opposition is a good light of the problem. For the "suburb" inhabitants, the french state is a police state which opress minorities, a racist state who is especially an enemy of Islam. For inhabitants of elsewhere, "suburb" inhabitants are violent scum dreaming of reinstate the caliphate & financing it with drug deal and violent crime.

So we have a strong opposition here. And if I can easily give more details about why we reached that situation, I have no clue on how to solve it :( . What is sure, is that the conflict is not only in the streets. It's in the minds, & that's worse.

About our relative socialist country : people not born in France create twice more businesses than the ones born in France. That's good. What is not good is that those who do not do that, have very few opportunities to find real jobs. You see the lucky ones that achieve exiting the cities, & all the other ones, who are jealous & see them as traitors. I'm not sure whether it is a leftist or rightist morale, but here we are. There ARE opportunities, but not for everyone, by far. And the forgotten ones are angry - something easy to understand.