CIA runs network of secret prisons

[TinCow]

I'm outraged simply by their existence. That this administration has the gall to go ahead and set up camp in another country for it's dirty-work, and hope nobody notices.

There are plenty of reasons to have secure facilities close to where action is taking place. No one was outraged that the CIA had (and still has) safe houses all over the world to take captured spies or to protect defectors during the Cold War. Often it would take so long to get the people back to the US that information could become unusable. I understand what you're upset by, but it's not in my nature to start pointing fingers with nothing more than rumor to go on.

In order to maintain national security in the modern world, there must be secrets. If every Joe Blow on the street knew everything about our military and intelligence operations, we'd be in serious trouble. I accept that some things must be kept covert, especially when it comes to intelligence gathering. Yes, I am disturbed by the Iraqi prison scandal; yes, I am concerned about Guantanamo, but I do not see anything like that here.

[Hurin_Rules]

So, let me get this straight:

We now know:

1. The US government has set up a system of secret prisons.

2. We have no idea who is being held in them, for how long, on what charges, where they have been taken from and whether or not their captors are being allowed to torture them.

3. The Bush administration has asked the Senate to strike out language that would prevent the CIA from conducting torture against detainees.

4. There are repeated reports of torture and abuse throughout facilities associated with the US 'war on terror'; the US governments has been rocked by scandals from Abu Ghraib, Bagram Air Base, etc., where detainees were forced to sit in their own feces, smeared with menstrual fluid, collared like dogs, had their arms broken and, in several cases, were beaten and suffocated to death by their captors.

5. You're not at all worried by what might be happening in these secret prisons, and you feel the onus is on others to somehow find evidence of abuse at these secret facilities before you would be worried?

I'm just not really sure I understand such a perspective. I'm sure the Romans didn't much care what happened to the Visigoths until they came charging over the seventh hill. I just can't help but think of this as hubris.

I guess all men are created equal, unless they're not Americans.

[TinCow]

5. You're not at all worried by what might be happening in these secret prisons, and you feel the onus is on others to somehow find evidence of abuse at these secret facilities before you would be worried?

I'm just not really sure I understand such a perspective. I'm sure the Romans didn't much care what happened to the Visigoths until they came charging over the seventh hill. I just can't help but think of this as hubris.

I guess all men are created equal, unless they're not Americans.

I never said I was not worried. It's clear that we're reading this new article differently though. Here's what we know from my perspective:

1) The CIA continues to operate secure safe houses around the world just as it and many other nations have done for decades.

2) High level Al Queda operatives may or may not be held at one or more of these facilities.

3) Assuming said operatives are in fact held at these facilities, their senior nature gives a high probability that they will have information that relates to planned attacks on various targets around the world.

4) Not all methods of interrogation are illegal or repulsive to morality.

I will rant and rave about Bush's policies and mistakes until I am blue in the face. However I simply refuse to start badmouthing the people who are protecting me when there is a) no evidence of wrongdoing and b) a perfectly legitimate explanation for their behaviour. It is this kind of thinking that sends innocent men to jail.

[Hurin_Rules]

No evidence of wrongdoing? The Italian goverment has released arrest warrants for CIA operatives. Clearly, they had enough for an indictment.

[TinCow]

No evidence of wrongdoing? The Italian goverment has released arrest warrants for CIA operatives. Clearly, they had enough for an indictment.

How is that related to these prisons?

[Ronin]

How is that related to these prisons?

as I remember those indictements were for kidnapping....it´s reasonable to assume that the people that were "kidnapped" would be taken to these facilities.

[TinCow]

as I remember those indictements were for kidnapping....it´s reasonable to assume that the people that were "kidnapped" would be taken to these facilities.

The only people that article indicates that could be in these prisons are "most important al Qaeda captives." As far as I am aware, it is impossible to illegally kidnap a terrorist who is actively involved in armed attacks on civilians. We normally call this "capturing" them.

[Devastatin Dave]

I guess all men are created equal, unless they're not Americans.

Yes...

[Kanamori]