CIA runs network of secret prisons

[PanzerJaeger]

And you do not embody the American who gains admiration and respect, who embodies the "American Way".

As for Panzer. Well if his ideals reflect then American way then I have been sadly misled. I always thought justice and fairness to be admirable features of America as a whole. When someone who has just a little too much admiration for Nazi (sorry, Prussian) Germany starts talking about traitors and dealing with enemies of the state I hope you will forgive me for believe his opinions to be non-representative.

Crawl back under your bridge little troll.

[Idaho]

Crawl back under your bridge little troll.

I love your contributions to debates Panzer. If I ever want to know the lowest common denominator, the base level of ignorance that the world is up against, I can come on here and read your opinions.

The idea that you are in favour of a bunch of illegal practices, the details of which are not known - simply because you believe (and belief is all you have) they might possibly be working for your security is blinkered, lazy ignorance.

It is this kind of intellectually-untroubled non-think that governments rely on. Hey Panzer - look bad man hurt you! We hurt people who might be bad men! Good Panzer - have a candy!

[Tribesman]

if this continues in this direction the Sir Clegane or I will lock this thread.
It would appear that some people would like this topic locked , perhaps the numerous posts that show thier stance to be baseless and contrary to what they claim is too much to handle

PS - now if your just wanting to talk about what the CIA is doing, I think they are completely in the wrong holding individuals without following the Laws of War and being open about the holding of these individuals.

That seems like a complete summation of the subject , based on facts at hand , legal precedent , moral obligation and the general public benefit and security issues .
Does anyone have anything at all that can contradict Redlegs post ?

[Slyspy]

Not from me, I quite agree. Although as noted if the prisoners are not POWs (ie captured in a war zone) then civil justice should apply rather than military.

[Idaho]

Not from me, I quite agree. Although as noted if the prisoners are not POWs (ie captured in a war zone) then civil justice should apply rather than military.

You're just wimps. Obviously the only way forward is to tolerate and encourage national security services to start acting as international extra-judicial secret police. Everyone knows the CIA are famous for their history of mistake-free integrity - why would we want to hamper this organisation by scrutinising their activities?

[/sarcasm]

[PanzerJaeger]

I love your contributions to debates Panzer. If I ever want to know the lowest common denominator, the base level of ignorance that the world is up against, I can come on here and read your opinions.

The idea that you are in favour of a bunch of illegal practices, the details of which are not known - simply because you believe (and belief is all you have) they might possibly be working for your security is blinkered, lazy ignorance.

It is this kind of intellectually-untroubled non-think that governments rely on. Hey Panzer - look bad man hurt you! We hurt people who might be bad men! Good Panzer - have a candy!

Youre so cute, all sheltered and idealistic! I just want to wrap you in bubble-wrap and keep safe from reality!

Unfortunately, one day you will have to stark conclusion that the only thing that runs the world is power. Neither your law nor your principles will stop Muhammad from detonating bomb in your city, only an aggressive use of power. You can take as much pride as you like in the fact that every international law and stipulation was followed to the fullest extent, but that does nothing to bring back those killed by terrorists or anybody at war with your nation.

Its easy to sit in your comfortable computer chair and scoff at the evil CIA, bla bla bla ( ), but its a lot harder to have the responsibility of protecting 300 million people from mass murderers. I give the government just a little more leeway than the terrorists.. sorry.

You need to take another sip of coffee, relax a little, and remember you have no basis for your little hissy fit. There is no need to be so self righteous about an issue that you admittedly dont have any real information about besides your deeming it "a bunch of illegal practices".

Your idealism is fun in the intellectual sandbox, but that high horse you are riding wont make it very far in the real world little fella.

[Goofball]

Neither your law nor your principles will stop Muhammad from detonating bomb in your city, only an aggressive use of power.

Actually, agressive uses of power do nothing to stop "Muhammed" from detonating bombs in your cities.

Just ask the Israelis.

Or the Brits.

Or the Russians.

Little fella...

[Soulforged]

Unfortunately, one day you will have to stark conclusion that the only thing that runs the world is power. Neither your law nor your principles will stop Muhammad from detonating bomb in your city, only an aggressive use of power. You can take as much pride as you like in the fact that every international law and stipulation was followed to the fullest extent, but that does nothing to bring back those killed by terrorists or anybody at war with your nation.

Nothing will make them go back, that's not the point of anything, just irrational rant. Force doesn't achieve anything, and power, is, like any other social measure, reproduced over and over for people like you. You're so Christian PJ, I wonder when you'll start to demonstrate that bliss of chrisitianity?
The power only is a problem because some people still beleive in this way in wich power is managed, and they beleive in alienation, they believe in the cheat before the law, or action before anything. But don't make the same mistake, in some point this has to change, better if it's in you, start to think before you act, perhaps some idea of what the things should be, and not what they're, could come up into your mind. Practice it, some day you'll achieve it...

Its easy to sit in your comfortable computer chair and scoff at the evil CIA, bla bla bla ( ), but its a lot harder to have the responsibility of protecting 300 million people from mass murderers. I give the government just a little more leeway than the terrorists.. sorry.

Again Panzer, it seems that the idealist are you. Formally the CIA and every inteligence institutions, has had the simple and single purpose of secrecy. Thus you cannot know what they do, or with what purpose. Even if they do this that you love with all your heart, it doesn't mean a thing, you're constructing an hipotetical course of action for people that not even did anything in the future, or perhaps the CIA can see the future? They're humans PJ, if you let your love for intitutionalized power overtake your senses then you'll fall, or perhaps you already fell, in paranoia and hate-mongering. Organizations like the CIA, should not exist, period.
It seems to me that you're the idealist. Previous comments also confirm that, remember something like: "The USA was the only beacon of light in bla, bla, bla..."

You need to take another sip of coffee, relax a little, and remember you have no basis for your little hissy fit. There is no need to be so self righteous about an issue that you admittedly dont have any real information about besides your deeming it "a bunch of illegal practices".

I'll put it simple for you PJ: Your form of government is either democratic or republican, either way, CIA activities go against that form of government, wich exist to provide the people and not the other way around. I just hope that you shall not suffer the inconveniences of tyrany.

Your idealism is fun in the intellectual sandbox, but that high horse you are riding wont make it very far in the real world little fella.

Well already answered. But perhaps I should retell it. You should argue about the "Should be", not the "Is".

[Papewaio]

Youre so cute, all sheltered and idealistic! I just want to wrap you in bubble-wrap and keep safe from reality!

How many Muslim majority countries have you worked/lived in? Pop.

Unfortunately, one day you will have to stark conclusion that the only thing that runs the world is power. Neither your law nor your principles will stop Muhammad from detonating bomb in your city, only an aggressive use of power. You can take as much pride as you like in the fact that every international law and stipulation was followed to the fullest extent, but that does nothing to bring back those killed by terrorists or anybody at war with your nation.

The Japanese were using an aggresive amount of power and guess what was the reaction to that... Land of the Rising Sun got not one, but two of its own little Rising Suns to brighten up the day.

Its easy to sit in your comfortable computer chair and scoff at the evil CIA, bla bla bla ( ), but its a lot harder to have the responsibility of protecting 300 million people from mass murderers. I give the government just a little more leeway than the terrorists.. sorry.

That leeway may be the very catalyst causing the issues not resolving them. Bitch slap someone and they tend to bite back, it escalates...

You need to take another sip of coffee, relax a little, and remember you have no basis for your little hissy fit. There is no need to be so self righteous about an issue that you admittedly dont have any real information about besides your deeming it "a bunch of illegal practices".

Your idealism is fun in the intellectual sandbox, but that high horse you are riding wont make it very far in the real world little fella.

Coffee is not a relaxant

[Idaho]

Youre so cute, all sheltered and idealistic! I just want to wrap you in bubble-wrap and keep safe from reality!

Unfortunately, one day you will have to stark conclusion that the only thing that runs the world is power. Neither your law nor your principles will stop Muhammad from detonating bomb in your city, only an aggressive use of power. .....

....


....Your idealism is fun in the intellectual sandbox, but that high horse you are riding wont make it very far in the real world little fella.

Ah! Lectures on the nature and response to terrorism from a yank to a brit... heheheh.. It's like listening to a young child endearingly give instructions on how daddy should fix the car. We humour, we nod, we chuckle with pride at how far junior is progressing.

Come back in 20 years when you actually know something son