Should idiots be saved?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Spoken like a man.

Agreed. It's simply the decent thing to do.

[Red Harvest]

In the past, the various national agencies that get called in for rescues have resisted the idea of charging for the rescue. The reasoning is that people won't call when they really need help. I haven't made up my mind on that.

Ok, you say, "Big deal. They don't call, not my problem." What's going to happen...a long search for the bodies, not knowing where the heck they are. It's not like you've really saved anything.

So what happens when it is Capt. Clueless sailing into a storm when he should have known better. Now you might not feel sorry for him...but what about his wife and kids or others who happen to be on board?

This isn't a yay or nay post, just thinking through some consequences here. I personally would like to see a "means test" for sending a bill for rescue. Not saying let anyone off light...but also try to prevent the bill from becoming a reason NOT to contact authorities when someone needs help.

[Strike For The South]

Its days like this I am scared of the conservative movement. I honestly hope to god one day DD you or someone you love is cuaght in a position like this and then see how you feel. I never thought I would see the day when a human life has direct correlation with luck. Charging for rescuses what kind of bullshit is thas. Cutting this out of Taxes might give you pennies back but why stop there I say we cut everything the goverment uses to help people wouldnt that be swell

[Spetulhu]

Cutting this out of Taxes might give you pennies back but why stop there I say we cut everything the goverment uses to help people wouldnt that be swell

Sounds good. Only idiots would live in tornado country, so to hell with them!

[Mongoose]

Your missing the point. Most of these people are fairly wealthy, why should we pay for their hobbies?

i agree that they should be saved first, then billed. We do want to avoid this:

Nut case:i need help! I'm in the middle of a strom!!
Coast guard:Can you afford it?
Nut case:How much is it?
Coast guard:How much were you playing on spending?

[bmolsson]

Should soldiers be saved that are wounded on the battlefield?

Actually you should not kill your enemy. You should only wound him and you bind up two additional soldiers to help him. It's a well known fact that wounded enemy soldiers are better than dead ones. More resources are bound up and the cost for the enemy increase......

[Yawning Angel]

I'm very disappointed by some of the attitudes in this thread

I have done my share of "dangerous" sports (at this point all sorts of more people killed doing x 'safe' activity than y 'dangerous' sport could be recycled, but since you can prove anything with statistics . . . ) and I am also aware that many people are prepared to do some things I wouldn't consider trying. Should people who do these activities be rescued if they get into difficulty? Of course they should. Should they be charged for this? Not so clear cut - not everyone who partakes of these activities is as wealthy as some might think.

Having said that there are precautions you can take to safeguard yourself and make the job of any rescuers (if required) easier. When I've been scuba diving as part of a club, we take two boats, not everyone dives at the same time, the boats have flares, radios, GPS etc. And most importantly you tell the coastguard where you are going and what time you expect to be back AND then you tell them when you are back safely.

Have I ever needed to be rescued? - yes when the engines of both our boats failed: we called the coastguard who already knew where we were and the Lifeboat came and towed us in. Did we get charged? - no this is a free emergency service in the UK, but we all regularly contribute to the life boat charity (before and after this incident) and we bought the crew a bottle of scotch as a thank you

So a definate yes this idiot should always be saved

[Geoffrey S]

Should people living in an area known for its hurricanes or earthquakes be saved? They knew the risks when they moved there.

[AntiochusIII]

Should people living in an area known for its hurricanes or earthquakes be saved? They knew the risks when they moved there.

Yes.

If we consider that logic as a reasonable excuse for not saving someone, and if we consider the Tsunami possibility also as such a risk, we might as well not sending any aid to all those countries which suffered from it. After all, the Sri Lankans, Indonesians, Thais, etc, live there, right? They "knew" the risk!

And I guess none of Japan's citizens on their eastern shore should ever be saved because of the same logic.

The only difference is scale.

Besides, no place in the world is truly utterly safe. The logic is flawed from the start.

And life>money all the way, unless you are a...never mind; I don't think I need to create troubles...

Papewaio's Judas comparison is incredibly effective. Though some might argue that the authorities could refuse to save the person in need of help, and Judas would not (would he?) do anything else.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

No. Idiots should be used to solve world hunger.

[AntiochusIII]

No. Idiots should be used to solve world hunger.

You mean cannibalism?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

You mean cannibalism?

Only the poor will have to eat them, who cares about the poor?

*gets shot by Che Guevera's Ghost*

[AntiochusIII]

Only the poor will have to eat them, who cares about the poor?

Me? *and the Ghost of Mother Theresa*

*gets shot by Che Guevera's Ghost*

That must be my quote...

To tell you the truth, I was looking for a much cooler quote from Che saying something along the lines of "Fidel is not a communist, otherwise he'd have more guns..." But I couldn't find it.

About the topic, I stand by my statement, and would like to add that without idiots, smart people will no longer be smart; the knight is a serf if there is no one under him to be his serf.

Also, I'd like to stress that there *is* a limit to where fiscal conservatism can go. Saving lives is one of the limits; after all, aren't conservatives supposedly are "pro-life?"

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Me? *and the Ghost of Mother Theresa*

Bah, communists.

That must be my quote...

To tell you the truth, I was looking for a much cooler quote from Che saying something along the lines of "Fidel is not a communist, otherwise he'd have more guns..." But I couldn't find it.

About the topic, I stand by my statement, and would like to add that without idiots, smart people will no longer be smart; the knight is a serf if there is no one under him to be his serf.

Also, I'd like to stress that there *is* a limit to where fiscal conservatism can go. Saving lives is one of the limits; after all, aren't conservatives supposedly are "pro-life?"

If people are too stupid to be able to live on their own as adults, beh, let's just use them to build a bridge...a meat bridge.

[AntiochusIII]

Bah, communists.

Mother Theresa, you mean?

If people are too stupid to be able to live on their own as adults, beh, let's just use them to build a bridge...a meat bridge.

Erm...I think you are in a wrong thread. You see, this thread is not about social welfare (I presume you're talking about this), but is about actually rescuing the people who happens to be in a dangerous position, often by accident. But there is an assumption that many who got themselves into trouble are idiots, and the example in the first post "demonstrates," and thus, the topic: Should idiots be saved? And I answered yes.

on a completely unrelated note to Kaiser, I'm actually going to another debate tournament tomorrow-the day after tomorrow! I won LD novice the last one, by the way. It was awesome. This time my topic is about Judicial Activism--whether or not it is necessary to protect the rights of American citizens. Challenging as hell, this topic.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Mother Theresa, you mean?
Erm...I think you are in a wrong thread. You see, this thread is not about social welfare (I presume you're talking about this), but is about actually rescuing the people who happens to be in a dangerous position, often by accident. But there is an assumption that many who got themselves into trouble are idiots, and the example in the first post "demonstrates," and thus, the topic: Should idiots be saved? And I answered yes.

on a completely unrelated note to Kaiser, I'm actually going to another debate tournament tomorrow-the day after tomorrow! I won LD novice the last one, by the way. It was awesome. This time my topic is about Judicial Activism--whether or not it is necessary to protect the rights of American citizens. Challenging as hell, this topic.

Awesome dude! We have the speaking tournement this december, our coach is making me do the patriot act. I'm already being known as the Patriot act kid cause so far that's been a major point in every compitition I've been in. Good luck with that, hopefully we'll do good in this comp. so we can go to the major one in Penn State, that's a two-nighter as well.

Back on topic: Meh, we shouldn't waste the resoruces if it's proven the person's an idiot.

[Papewaio]

What is the threshold for idiot?

Speech Impediment.
Falling off a Segway.
Choking on a pretzel.

Would you save this person or are they below the idiot threshold?

Most people look like idiots at the site of an incident. You cannot make a valid judgement call as we all have accidents. Of all the times you are most likely to look stupid that is when you are in a state of shock after an accident.

So what next kill all those who have had accidents and are dazed afterwards?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

What is the threshold for idiot?

Speech Impediment.
Falling off a Segway.
Choking on a pretzel.

Would you save this person or are they below the idiot threshold?

Most people look like idiots at the site of an incident. You cannot make a valid judgement call as we all have accidents. Of all the times you are most likely to look stupid that is when you are in a state of shock after an accident.

So what next kill all those who have had accidents and are dazed afterwards?

Yes he does.

[bmolsson]

What is the threshold for idiot?

Speech Impediment.
Falling off a Segway.
Choking on a pretzel.

Would you save this person or are they below the idiot threshold?

Most people look like idiots at the site of an incident. You cannot make a valid judgement call as we all have accidents. Of all the times you are most likely to look stupid that is when you are in a state of shock after an accident.

So what next kill all those who have had accidents and are dazed afterwards?

You should not forget posters in threads like this......

[Soulforged]

Yes he does.

Hey Kaiser and DevastatinDave, and all those who say this stupidities in joke or not..."All you need is love"

[Kralizec]

No. I hope all Liberals go the way of the Dodo

(Guy hanging on a rope off a cliff): HELP!
Gawain: Don't worry, I'm here! *pulls the guy up* Err, wait a second, who did you vote for?
Guy: What?
Gawain: You didn't vote for Kerry, did you?
Guy: Well, actually...
Gawain: To bad for you kid, back you go...