RTR Light MP campaign mod discussion....

[hellenes]

As the participants in Myrdaal's MP campaign will know me and Destroyer of Hope are making a Light Version of RTR 6.2 specifically balanced and tuned for a MP campaign with the fewest preset/real world rules possible.
The mod will feature unit skins/models/UI cards from RTR 6.2 replacing every unit in the game where apropriate.
No maijor alteration will be done as far as unit stats are concerned.
The map stays vanilla 100%
this mod will be for RTW 1.3
Egypt will be "Ptolemaised" aka made into a sensible faction instead of some Egyptiolover's sick imagination.
Rome will be unified since there is no purpose for a Senate and there is no artificial need for late challnge having the 3 Roman kingdoms and its not SP.
All faction units will be restricted to their starting homeland cities and the cities that they influenced/conquered historically to avoid blitzkrieg and exploit rushing.
Each faction unit will have a unique upkeep/initial cost depending on unit's:
-Factions economic condition (Egypt rich-expensive units, Numidia poor-cheap units)
-Stats
-How effective the unit is (cavalry stacking up, horse archers design power, chariots, Elephants) eg Horse archer stats are low but their effectivness is very high.
-Faction's developing potential (eg, barbarians cant develope trade and agriculture same as the Greeks or the Easterns).
These are so far the changes. The aim was to keep it as closer to vanilla as possible.
Now TO ALL MP CAMPAIGN PARTICIPANTS!!
we have some cases of units that need to be decided whether they must GO or be tolerated like a 12 years' old's caprice:

Dogs:

Pros- Used in battles
- Give a more distinctive prluralistic feeling to the barbarians
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*

Cons- Used only in VERY scarce battles, very rarely
- Regenerate in a VERY unbalanced way
- Unattackable (just in case we get the battles to work)
- Romans use them which makes them even more overpowered (the romans)

Screeching Women:

Pros- Followed men on the battlefield
- Give a more distinctive prluralistic feeling to the Germans
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*

Cons- Used only in VERY scarce battles, very rarely
- Didnt fight!!!
- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*
- Unaccurate cheerleaders in mini skirts from the 70's holding axes like holding male genitalia.

Burning Pigs:

Pros- Used in battles
- Give a more distinctive prluralistic feeling to the game
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*
- Are one way to outweight elephants

Cons- Used only in ONE battle
- Used with VERY limited success (contrary to the game's depiction)
- Never used after that one battle
- Regenerate in a VERY unbalanced way (not so much as the dogs but still)
- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*
- There are other ways to balance elephants

Onagers:

Pros- Used in battles
- Give a more distinctive prluralistic feeling to the game
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*
- Speed up sieges

Cons- Way out of time frame
- Grossly unbalanced patriot rockets (proof-No art online games)
- Historically inaccurate even by 1st Cetury ad standards
- Even if balanced derive from the classical NOT dominated by artillery battlefield

Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters:

Pros- Fought alongside men on the battlefield
- Give a more distinctive prluralistic feeling to the Scythians
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*

Cons- Used only in VERY small numbers compared to the men
- Engine limitations forbid their impelentation as all unit must look the same (except maybe for standard bearers/officers)
- Historically innaccurate look: Same inaccurate cheerleaders in mini skirts from the 70's holding axes like holding male genitalia just with a different skin.
- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*

Headhurlers

Pros- The Celts collected heads
- Give a more distinctive prluralistic feeling to the Britons
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*

Cons- The Celts would NEVER throw away a trophy of magical importance and honour.
- Generally a VERY medievalistic idea out of the timeframe.
- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*

Arcani

Pros- The Romans had a special force of assasins
- Like MTW Hashishins the story continues
- Are "fun" ninjas/nazgul *SUBJECTIVE*

Cons- The assasins were THAT ASSASINS not participating in ANY battle.
- Look like VERY stupid sadomazochists *SUBJECTIVE*
- Offer nothing more than a small unit with 2 HP on the battlefield

Gladiators

Pros- Spartacus, revolt, gladiators...
- Are "fun" and cause Ive watched Russel Crow 12345 times on dvd *SUBJECTIVE*
- Can be used in slave revolutions.

Cons- Spartacus' gladiators fought in looted from the dead Romans weaponry not with Gladiator gear which is USLESS for mass field battles.
- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*
- Offer nothing more than a small unit with 2 HP on the battlefield
- Engine limitations on changing gear and looting it from the enemy (even if we got them as gladiators at the beggining)

Bull Warriors

Pros- Spanish unit line if quite poor so...
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*

Cons- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*
- Pure FANTASY
- Plenty of historical units on hand to replace

Scythian/German Axemen

Pros- Scythian/German unit line if quite poor so...
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*
- They might have had such a unit...

Cons- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*
- Pure FANTASY
- Plenty of historical units on hand to replace
- They might have had Jedi knights, Pokemon, and Buffy the Vampireslayer

Druids

Pros- Druids fought in battles
- Are "fun" *SUBJECTIVE*
- Give a more distinctive prluralistic feeling to the Barbarians

Cons- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*
- They didnt fight with Communist gear neither were chating to support the troops.
- Plenty of historical units on hand to replace
- Might be ONLY used as officers.
- Not necessary

Please cast your vote by stating for each unit your opinion.

The list:
Dogs
Stay
GO!! +1+1+1+1+1+1

Screeching Women
Stay+1+1
GO!!+1+1+1+1

Burning Pigs
Stay+1+1
GO!! +1+1+1+1

Onagers
Stay+1+1+1
GO!!+1+1+1

Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters
Stay +1+1
GO!!+1+1+1+1

Headhurlers
Stay+1+1+1
GO!!+1+1+1

Arcani
Stay+1
GO!!+1+1+1+1+1

Gladiators
Stay+1+1+1+1
GO!!+1+1

Bull Warriors
Stay+1+1
GO!!+1+1+1+1

Scythian/German Axemen
Stay+1
GO!!+1+1+1+1+1

Druids
Stay+1
GO!!+1+1+1+1+1

Hellenes

Edit:Updated the choices
Stating your reasons for each choice wouldnt harm...
Edit2: Votes reverted to the units go/stay choice fo each unit!!!
PLEASE STATE DELETE OR STAY FOR EACH UNIT!!
Edit3: Updated.
Edit4: Updated
PLEASE STATE STAY OR GO NEXT TO EACH UNIT!!!!!!!!!

[Duke Malcolm]

Dogs - Yes
Screeching Women - Yes
Burning Pigs - No
Onagers - No
Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters - Yes
Headhurlers - No
Arcani - Yes
Gladiators No
Bull Warriors - Yes
Scythian/German Axemen - Yes
Druids - Yes

[Ignoramus]

I would give Croton and Tarentum to the Greek Cities, and make Syracuse rebel, and of course make Messena rebel.
Dogs - Yes
Screeching Women - No
Burning Pigs - No
Onagers - No
Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters - No
Headhurlers - No
Arcani - Yes
Gladiators No
Bull Warriors - Yes
Scythian/German Axemen - Yes
Druids - Yes

[Ignoramus]

Um, how big is this?

[menander]

Dogs - Delete
Screeching Women - Delete
Burning Pigs - Delete
Onagers - Delete
Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters - Delete
Headhurlers - Delete
Arcani - Delete
Gladiators - Delete
Bull Warriors - Stay
Scythian/German Axemen - Stay
Druids - Delete

After playing RTR, any of these units will be a wrench. I think the two I've indicated are the only necessary ones

Edited: For the Delete/Stay thing

[The Stranger]

Dogs delete
Screeching Women delete
Burning Pigs delete
Onagers make m very scarse
Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters delete/replace with other unit since theyre units are very poor
Headhurlers delete/replace with misile unit
Arcani delete
Gladiators only for rebels but change skin and weaponry
Bull Warriors replace
Scythian/German Axemen just make m historical/replace
Druids replace but use as officers

[The Stranger]

oh and i have a balance layout thats been used in 3 mods, (AoVaF, NTW and Arthurian TW)

[hellenes]

To keep the download size small the player will have to unpack the pack files (using Vercigentorixes unpacker) and then delete/remove the packs.Because the game sees first in the packs directory for vanilla units.
After that the mod will be installed.
Unfortunatley for people that support the inclusion of female warriors there are no (as far as im aware plz correct me if im wrong) decent historical skins/models.
Same for Druids and gladiators.
So these either go or stay.

Hellenes

[PROMETHEUS]

Arcani

Pros- The Romans had a special force of assasins
- Like MTW Hashishins the story continues
- Are "fun" ninjas/nazgul *SUBJECTIVE*

Cons- The assasins were THAT ASSASINS not participating in ANY battle.
- Look like VERY stupid sadomazochists *SUBJECTIVE*
- Offer nothing more than a small unit with 2 HP on the battlefield

As you should know , Ammianus Marcellinus talks about units of Arcani who fought on the caledonian borders in operations of saboting ..... they where not assassins but instead a military unit called Arcani , so it is historically correct also their aspect is even close to what they looked like , and for this I have reference pictures for them on sculptures .....

Gladiators

Pros- Spartacus, revolt, gladiators...
- Are "fun" and cause Ive watched Russel Crow 12345 times on dvd *SUBJECTIVE*
- Can be used in slave revolutions.

Cons- Spartacus' gladiators fought in looted from the dead Romans weaponry not with Gladiator gear which is USLESS for mass field battles.
- Look VERY stupid *SUBJECTIVE*
- Offer nothing more than a small unit with 2 HP on the battlefield
- Engine limitations on changing gear and looting it from the enemy (even if we got them as gladiators at the beggining)

Actually not all Gladiators looted roman equipment , during the revolt of Florian some Legionaries had to use pickaxes to breack the gladiator armours of the Crupellari , who where so hard that resembled medieval knights , the drawback of this armourstyle was the slow motions allowed.....

[The Stranger]

To keep the download size small the player will have to unpack the pack files (using Vercigentorixes unpacker) and then delete/remove the packs.Because the game sees first in the packs directory for vanilla units.
After that the mod will be installed.
Unfortunatley for people that support the inclusion of female warriors there are no (as far as im aware plz correct me if im wrong) decent historical skins/models.
Same for Druids and gladiators.
So these either go or stay.

Hellenes

let the gladiators stay for rebels...replace the druids with another (elite) unit and also replace the virgins with another unit to compensate their place

[hellenes]

operations of saboting .....

Well can any unit sabote in RTW battlefield?
If not then the Arcani are practically out of use...
And as far as gladiators are concerned I stated that is very hard to keep them as they are and the Romans reqruiting them.
But its up to the members to decide...

Hellenes

[Ignoramus]

I am confused, what is this upacker thing? Can someone please fully explain.

[Lord Winter]

I am confused, what is this upacker thing? Can someone please fully explain.

I presume you mean x-pak. x-pax is a tool that reveals files which are used to mod unit cards textures and sprites.

Hellenes

I have installed RTR but the unit cards and skins are still from vanilla. In place of this i have started the ZoR.
Sorry for the delay

DoH

[Heinrich VI]

Dogs - No
Screeching Women - Yes
Burning Pigs - No
Onagers - No
Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters - Yes
Headhurlers - No
Arcani - No
Gladiators No
Bull Warriors - Yes
Scythian/German Axemen - Yes
Druids - Yes

but if you plan to use RTR 6.2 units - drop them all ;)

[Ignoramus]

Does it come with RTW though? Or doesn't it?

[hellenes]

I presume you mean x-pak. x-pax is a tool that reveals files which are used to mod unit cards textures and sprites.

Hellenes

I have installed RTR but the unit cards and skins are still from vanilla. In place of this i have started the ZoR.
Sorry for the delay

DoH

Ok do it but in order to make the unit cards visible one must:
1. Unpack the packs
2. Rename every appropriate unit card from RTR to vanilla (eg: scythian Horse archers replaced by RTR scythian horse archers)
3. Change the soldiers in model_battle.txt and then assign them to units in export_units.txt

By ZoR I mean to have each unit unique eg. the shared units should be split apart (eastern infantry--->Armenian infantry, Parthian Infantry, Pontic Infantry) BUT only by their FIRST name in export_units.txt (one thats on the top) and NOT the dictionary name this must be the same for all of them. Also each of the split units must be restricted to their faction: Armenian Infantry to Armenia etc.
Also in export_buildings.txt must be placed hidden recources for each faction and some for unique units (nubians, cappadocian cavalry, spartans) within that faction. So EVERY unit to be restricted to its faction's homeland TO AVOID blitzing.

AFTER HEARING THE NEWS FROM DESTROYER ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE THIS MOD OUT BY SUNDAY SINCE IVE DONE ONLY THE CARTHAGINIANS AND THE EASTERNS WITH SCYTHIANS.
IF ANYONE CAN HELP PLEASE CONTACT ME THROUGH PM!!
There are 4 cultures left: Barbarians, Greeks, Romans
NO special skill is need only .txt model assignment and renaming the UI info pics of RTR to vanilla names and placing them into the vanilla UI/UNITS folder!!

Hellenes

[Lord Winter]

Ignormanus
You can download x-pac here

Hellenes should i put in an auxillia building(s) like in RTR?

[Myrddraal]

If this mod is going to be used, then hurry up gents

[Lord Winter]

Dogs - Yes
Screeching Women - No
Burning Pigs - No
Onagers - Yes
Scythian Noble Women/Virgin Headhunters - No
Headhurlers - No
Arcani - No
Gladiators No
Bull Warriors - No
Scythian/German Axemen - Yes
Druids - No

[hellenes]

Ignormanus
You can download x-pac here

Hellenes should i put in an auxillia building(s) like in RTR?

Well for one its going to be kinda hard to make all the auxcilia coding and with auxcilia troops everyone end up having the same and the same armies Ill send you tommorow my finished export units txt with all split up units. Its better to start with restricted areas and then we ll see how it goes (its a beta testing autoresolved MP cmpaign anyway.)

If this mod is going to be used, then hurry up gents

Ive decided that im gonna change only the campaignmap part of the units (aka just UI cards and descriptions) because its autoresolved anyway and SO we ll get the mod in 2 days the lates.
In the future if Myrdaal gets the battles to work well make the battlemap units too.

Hellenes

[Lord Winter]

Well for one its going to be kinda hard to make all the auxcilia coding and with auxcilia troops everyone end up having the same and the same armies Ill send you tommorow my finished export units txt with all split up units. Its better to start with restricted areas and then we ll see how it goes (its a beta testing autoresolved MP cmpaign anyway.)

We dont have to add new units for an auxilla. It could just be a building or a series of building allowing you to build your own units in other territory it would still stop blitzing and speed up the late game.

as for coding it in it would just be a series of conditionals added on to export descr buildings

[Ignoramus]

Why do we need new unit cards?

[Lord Winter]

Why do we need new unit cards?

Just to give the game a more RTR feel we dont absolutely need them but they help.

If any one wants to make a list of which factions own which provinces (not city names) it would speed up the ZoR.

DoH

[Ignoramus]

Vanilla RTW Provinces:

Carthage:

Africa
Sardinia
Baetica
Sicilia Poeni
Baliares
Byzacium

Gaul:

Central Gaul
Amorica
Cisalpine Gaul
Venetia
Aquitania
Narbonensis

Spain:

Taraconensis
Gallaecia
Lusitania
Hispania


I'll add more later, but I think Croton and Tarentum should go to Greece, Sicilia Romanus and Sicilia Graecus should be rebel. Caupa should be rebel.

Rome:

Latium
Etrurium
Umbria.

[shifty157]

How close are you to finishing?

[Lord Winter]

How close are you to finishing?

friday at the latest for my part (ZoR)

[Lord Winter]

I will be going out of town for a few days and won't be able to finish the ZoR on time if any one else would like to finish they are welcome to.

Export_dscr_buildings.zip

The file name is under Export_dscr_buildings.zip

[hellenes]

I will be going out of town for a few days and won't be able to finish the ZoR on time if any one else would like to finish they are welcome to.

Export_dscr_buildings.zip

The file name is under Export_dscr_buildings.zip

I got your file and the RTR Light mod will be released tommorow.

Hellenes

[shifty157]

Very good news. Its about time we got this thing started.

[Silver Rusher]

This won't take long to put in, so maybe before you release the mod you could edit the text files to show the player names in brackets beside their faction, like Seleucid Empire (Silver Rusher)