Idea bank!

[HKagemusha]

Kama Yari Ashigaru
Since there's no representation as an regular or levy ashigaru and that the Kama Yari was an fairly common weapon for ashigaru, this is the only way left to implement it. It would carry the curved, almost sickle-shaped, Kama-Yari. It would be good against cavalry and such agaisnt everything else.

I appologize for bringing up such an old discussion, especially on my very first post >.<; But I was reading through the threads and saw this mentioned several times and couldn't help but respond.

The kama was a popular weapon in the sengoku period but there are a lot of misconceptions about it, and about anti-cavalry fighting in general. First, the kama was popular in certain regions during certain periods, but it was still outnumbered by other, older designs that were losing popularity but not yet replaced. These designs were largely chinese, korean, or even western influenced designs featuring exaggerated features such as unbalanced blades, curving and hooked spear points, unusually long or short staffs, and straight spears. Samurai who used weaponry passed down the generations, and ashigaru who were stationed in provinces that did not benefit from famous foundries often used these older designs over the kama spears.

However the bigger misconception is in the usefulness of the kama. Thought it was romanticized by certain famous fights and warriors, the kama actually was NOT an effective way to deal with cavalry unless wielded by an exceptionally skilled warrior. Archeological missions during the last century discredited this idea when they dug up a shocking number of samurai corpses with the left sides of their skulls indented. Upon further research, it turns out that the most common and effective way to deal with enemy cavalry did not use the spear point or cross blades at all, but rather utilized the blunt back end of the spear.

Unlike western armies, samurai weren't very keen on planting their spears in the ground in face of an enemy charge. Since most yari footsoldiers were (relatively) lightly armored and very few Japanese warriors used shields, it makes sense that they would not want to give up their mobility or lose their primary method of defending themselves from projectiles/melee attack. Thus, Japanese warriors developed a rather unique way of dealing with cavalry. The ends of a typical sengoku era Japanese spear (kama or not) were usually wrapped in iron and later steel. When the enemy cavalry charged, the front lines would hold their ground and break up the enemy formation with their spears. Then it was the back ranks duty to dismount and defeat the enemy. Their technique? Hurl the back end of the spear at the enemies head. The vast majority of horse riding samurai were dismounted by crushing blows to the left side of their head, then finished with the spear point while laying dazed upon the ground. Though this sounds rather unbelievable, the evidence speaks for itself and many of the remaining Japanese martial art masters have concurred that this is most likely what happened.

Long-winded and mostly useless information aside... greetings to everyone XD Know that I joined the forums SOLELY out of interest for this mod. It's exactly what I've dreamed of since the first day I bought rome: total war and I only regret I haven't been around to help you guys out >.<; And I do have one suggestion to make that may or may not have been mentioned (I still have a number of threads to read through and it's rather late here already >.<;). Will the Hachisuka band make an appearance in this mod? The Hachisuka were arguably the most famous unit active in the oda armies throughout the warring states era. Originally nothing but 30 illiterate and poorly equipped levy warriors, the Hachisuka proved themselves time and time again both in heated battles and outside of the battlefield in projects such as the Sunomata castle. Besides, it was the unit that Hashiba Hideyoshi originated from ^^

[HKagemusha]

Ack sorry for teh double post. I haven't found the edit button yet (if there is one), but saw a few more things to comment on

Another idea I have is get rid of battle field ninja. These are very far fetched.

No offense, but this couldn't be further from the truth. As someone who has trained 12 years in togakure ryu ninjutsu and has studied the history of the ninja clans (including some which is kept away from outsiders), I can confidently tell you that this is a HUGE misconception. In fact, ninja should not be used to assassinate opponents in the game as that is a massive massive misconception that has been supported by movies, television, stories, and legends for nearly two centuries.

The truth is, ninja were never, not ever in any Japanese era, assassins. Yes they were highly trained and loyal bodyguards, expert spies and advisors, and pioneers of infiltration and stealth techniques. However, their role was a defensive one, not murder or assassination. There were plenty of hired killers around who would assassinate opponents, but they had nothing to do with the ninja clans. The misconception came about when the Meiji Restoration over threw the caste system and exposed the ninja clans for the first time in history. While the ninja weren't keen on sharing their secret histories with the Meiji, the Meiji were overjoyed by the discovery. The Meiji, primarily composed of peasants and aristocrats who wished to overthrow the samurai ruling class, felt that they held a great deal in common with the ninja clans whom were also from the peasant class and rejected bushido, the codes which the samurai swore by. Thus, the ninja were exalted into the status of heroes and legends. Problem was, it wasn't just the ninja who benefitted from this, but every 12th-18th century peasant warrior who snuck around in dark clothes. The majority of these were nothing but bandits, thieves, rapists, murderers and hired killers. Of course, the ninja themselves didn't mind this misconception, since it only enhanced their fearsome reputation and made it even easier to go about their work undisturbed.

By contrast, ninja absolutely do belong on the battlefield. The ninja clans first formed in iga as a peasant alternative to samurai armies. While a ninja strives never to directly confront an enemy... ambushes, tactical feints, infiltration, deception, and other scare tactics were widely used in many battlefields. Even the mighty Oda clan experienced this first hand when Nobunaga's son mad an ill-informed attempt to invade Iga and was horribly shamed and routed. Nobunaga was absolutely furious with his son and his son's advisor for launching a war with the cunning clans of iga.

I like you RTW has population values. This may be needlessly complex, but you could have peasant upgrades to Asigaru and then during peacetime return to the fields to increase economics. It would be historically accurate.

Sorry, I mean you no insult but this is actually not correct either. There is a difference between ashigaru and militia levies. ashigaru were a professional force of peasant warriors, much like medieval men at arms. While in desperate times ashigaru ranks were temporarily bolster by untrained militias, there were always some ashigaru who travelled with the army at all times

Am I right in saying that Muramasa blades were considered evil/bad omen by Tokugawa clan?

Yes you are correct. I don't remember the exact details, Ieyasu's family (known then as the Matsudaira clan) had the ironic fate of dying one after another by the hands of muramasa blades. If I remember correctly, everyone up until Ieyasu himself died in such a manner, including his grandfather, father, older and younger brothers.

On an unrelated note, Nobunaga had an interesting tie to the month of June in much the same way. He was born in June, he won his first major battle (against Imagawa Yoshimoto) along with many other significant battles in June, and he died in June

[HKagemusha]

Ah, I appologize once again for back to back posting, just wanted to make it clear. I'm not knocking the idea of the kama spear (or anyone else's ideas) I just like to bring up various historical points. Obviously, the kama was effective. However, I would say it's real effectiveness was against heavily armored footsoldiers and in castle sieges.

As someone who has personally spent between 2-3 years trying to learn the weapon, I can safely say it was one of the most unwieldy and difficult to learn weapons. But then again, learning to properly use a naginata takes ten years of training, even for highly skilled individuals.

A more practical and easier to construct, wield, and master weapon is the kusari-gama, or sickle and chain weapon. Wielded by ninja and other warriors who couldn't afford high quality spears and weapons, the kusari-gama was rather effective at dealing with cavalry and heavily armored samurai alike... if you had the space and time to properly employ it. Still it was hard to beat in one on one battles, and the fact that it could easily be concealed made it all the more dangerous.

Okay I promise I will stop bringing up useless tidbits of history XD

[Taneda Santôka]

Don't mistake battlefield combat and one-on-one combat. I can hardly imagine a unit handling manriki-gusaris and the like....


And Ashigarus were conscripted peasants.
Period.
They became more professionalised with time and the building up of the conflict during the Sengoku Jidai, but basicaly, an Ashigaru is a conscripted foot soldier.

[HKagemusha]

I'm not entirely certain if and how we are disagreeing. The essence of what I said was that there is a difference between ashigaru and militia, which is undoubtedly true. I may have misused the term professional, but that wasn't really the point.

Regardless, it was mostly mindless babble for those interested in such things. Nothing a member of the team needs to concern themselves with ^^