holy atrocities...

[VAE VICTUS]

this was inspired by the inquistion thread.
what and how many massacres have been carried out in the name of god(s)?
please give as much detail as im very curious regarding this subject.

[AntiochusIII]

All I can say is: you need to be more specific in terms of examples that you want, and nobody (save God? ) can give the exact, or even approximate, number of incidents and deaths involved in violence related to religious reasons. Perhaps starting by narrowing in terms of region, religion, and time period.

[master of the puppets]

crusades
hugonaught wars and later massacres
inquisition
witch hunts/ trials

plus lots more that i will list when i'm not so tired...goodnight.

[Incongruous]

Thirty Years war.
Crusade against the Cathari.
Reformation.

[Hurin_Rules]

The First Crusade (1096-9) saw massacres at:

Mainz, Speyer, Worms, Cologne and many other German cities (Crusaders massacred Jews as they passed through).

Several towns and cities in Hungary and the Balkans (as the crusaders passed through).

Antioch.

Maarrat an-Numan.

Albara.

Jerusalem.

To name just a few.

[edyzmedieval]

Constantinople 1204.

The greatest atrocity. F***** Crusaders...Burn in hell all of you!!!

[master of the puppets]

constantinople 1204 YAY

and the decapitation of innocent journalists in iraq and afghanistan for the past coyuple of years

[Reverend Joe]

The Jonestown massacre. Sick psycho cult stuff, but if you think about it, it's no different from other religions- it's just that there are enough "faithful" people around to say that x are religions, and y are cults.

[edyzmedieval]

constantinople 1204 YAY

Burn in the flames of hell!!!

Also, the Vietnam massacre.... USA Soldiers killed Vietnamese....

[Red Harvest]

Also, the Vietnam massacre.... USA Soldiers killed Vietnamese....

Okay, enough!!! That is just horse manure! Hell, it isn't even on the damned topic: The Vietnam war was not fought over religion. Take this sort of CRAP somewhere else, because it is is the wrong forum.

[Geoffrey S]

Temur was in a league of his own, but it's a matter of debate as to who motivated he really was by religion; he was remarkably flexible on that account.

[Lazul]

try instead to name a war where God wasnt "present".... thats harder.

Damn god, you've been naughty.

[Redleg]

try instead to name a war where God wasnt "present".... thats harder.

Damn god, you've been naughty.

I know a couple - but lets see what is mentioned. Do you want wars before the 1900s only?

[Meneldil]

Okay, enough!!! That is just horse manure! Hell, it isn't even on the damned topic: The Vietnam war was not fought over religion. Take this sort of CRAP somewhere else, because it is is the wrong forum.

Well, it could be argued that communism and capitalist were two opposite religions, just as Christianity and Islam right now.

[edyzmedieval]

Okay, enough!!! That is just horse manure! Hell, it isn't even on the damned topic: The Vietnam war was not fought over religion. Take this sort of CRAP somewhere else, because it is is the wrong forum.

You got problems man?! Calm down.....

Let me see....Sassanids persecuting Christians. The Bishop of Persia....

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Question is unanswerable in its present form.

We would need to operationally define "war," "religion," and "massacre" for a start.

Having defined the terms for the purpose of discussion, we would then need to find some means for establishing those wars/incidents that were:

primarily motivated by "religion,"

partly motivated by "religion,"

and those motivated by greed but "fig-leafed" "with religion."

I would suggest:

Religion = any formal or quasi-formal system of worship (not simply belief) common to a significant percentage of a given culture. This opdef would include all of the major religions, as well as Shinto or Animism, but would exclude Deism, splinter cults, etc.

War/atrocity = any act of physical violence perpetrated by one group against another. This opdef would include combat and pillage, but would exclude individual murders/assassinations.

Massacre = I suggest defining this as the killing of innocents (people who can be demonstrated to have no combatant role in a conflict, or to have had a combatant role but to have assumed the status of a prisoner prior to the massacre).

In noting motivation/labeling events for inclusion or exclusion, I would provide the following examples:

Primarily motivated by religion = the Beggar's Crusade. The participants truly believed themselve to be furthering the work of their religion and sought little or no personal gain of any kind.

Partly motivated by religion = The 30 Year's War, The 2nd Crusade, The expulsion of the Huegenots [sp?]. Religion may be the triggering issue, and continues to play a role in the conflict/motivations of participants, but other more "practical" matters are of equal/greater precedence.

"Fig-leafed" with religion = The conquest of the Americas. Though some participants may be acting from a purely religious motivation, most of the participants are there for "gain" in some form, and are using the religion to justify aggrandizement.


Not a perfect set of opdefs, I admit, but should suffice to allow folks to tackle the original question from an equal footing.

[Red Harvest]

You got problems man?! Calm down.....

No, I don't, but you obviously do. Basic logic seems to have completely escaped you, since your post on the subject was complete nonsense. If you want to take a totally unfounded political swipe, that is what the backroom is for.

The topic here was not an unreasonable one. Your use of it is unreasonable.

[Red Harvest]

Well, it could be argued that communism and capitalist were two opposite religions, just as Christianity and Islam right now.

It could be argued that eating rice versus bread was a religion too, wouldn't make his statement any more accurate. I really loathe completely inaccurate tripe like he posted being thrown out this way. If he wants to make such a stupid assertion he can take it to the backroom where it belongs.

[Togakure]

Isn't the vehemence of your reaction to what he wrote at least as Backroom worthy?

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Christians were violently expelled from Tokugawa Japan, and many were crucified (ironic, that) in the process. In this case, it seems the "holy" were massacred by the pagans.

[The_Doctor]

Greeks.

Some cities would form leagues to protect holy places. If they where damaged the city responsible would be attacked or fined and a few times wiped out.

[Red Harvest]

Isn't the vehemence of your reaction to what he wrote at least as Backroom worthy?

I'm treating it as if it were a backroom post. Lucky for him I'm not saying what I really think of him at the moment.

[Adrian II]

What and how many massacres have been carried out in the name of god(s)?

Very simple. Before the advent of atheist political movements, all massacres were carried out in the name of some God or other. After that, some were carried out in the name of History, Liberation, Race, you name it.

Frankly I don't see any reason for this sort of calculus. Aggregated numbers -- supposing for the sake of argument that they were available, which they are not -- would not tell us anything either about the massacres or about 'religion'. Just like that thread about the Inquisition, this thread seems motivated by the desire to provoke believers rather than analyse historic events.

[edyzmedieval]

I'm treating it as if it were a backroom post. Lucky for him I'm not saying what I really think of him at the moment.

From your idiotic posts, it's easy to find out.....

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Other Holy Atrocities.... The persecutions of Roman Emperors against the Christians would count?!

[Kaiser of Arabia]

The list goes into modern times.