Terrorist thought exercise

[Crazed Rabbit]

It wanted US troops out of Arabia and Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.

Had this happened it would have served only to embolden them, and they would have picked something else. One of Osama's gripes is the Turk's defeat at Vienna - about 500 years ago.

After all, why are terrorists (nothing to do with the rioters) trying to attack the Saddam-friendly France? Or why French ships are attacked, and the terrorists say "We wanted to strike the US, but any infidel will do."

Nor was their 'propaganda taken over'. It was a concious and deliberate goal to destroy the west, even if they were smart enough to not claim it at first.

Crazed Rabbit

[Papewaio]

The Outback... if they dropped a couple of nukes in the middle there Australians would be devastated.

[Meneldil]

After all, why are terrorists (nothing to do with the rioters) trying to attack the Saddam-friendly France?

Because Saddam isn't linked in any way with terrorists and muslim extremists ?
Or is that because France had some nasty stuffs going on with Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia a few decades ago ?

[LeftEyeNine]

One of Osama's gripes is the Turk's defeat at Vienna - about 500 years ago.

??

I bet that freak does not know a single letter of Ottoman history. Do you really support that idea ?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Because Saddam isn't linked in any way with terrorists and muslim extremists ?
Or is that because France had some nasty stuffs going on with Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia a few decades ago ?

I don't want to get into an Iraq war discussion (and it's not like Saddam was a great guy even if he had no connection with AQ). I'm just saying that it would seem that the French have taken a postion very favorable to Osama's demands (not that they really had to give up anything, like move troops out of Arabia), and sentiment is, from what I can tell, pro-palestinian. They are doing all that Osama claimed he wanted them to do, yet terrorists still try and attack them.

Yes, France has had hard dealings with some North African countries, but that was a while ago, and the (attempted) terror attacks aren't by Algerian nationalists (since Algeria is already independent) but by fanatic Muslims in the name of Islam, though they may happen to be from Algeria.

I bet that freak does not know a single letter of Ottoman history. Do you really support that idea ?

Who's the freak? Me or Osama? I see now that the siege of Vienna was only a little more than 300 years ago. Truth be told, I cannot find the resource saying Osama's mad about Vienna, but I do remember hearing about it.

Crazed Rabbit

[Tribesman]

Yes, France has had hard dealings with some North African countries, but that was a while ago, and the (attempted) terror attacks aren't by Algerian nationalists (since Algeria is already independent) but by fanatic Muslims in the name of Islam, though they may happen to be from Algeria.

Perhaps you might want to view some news from Algeria and France from the past couple of decades .

I'm just saying that it would seem that the French have taken a postion very favorable to Osama's demands (not that they really had to give up anything, like move troops out of Arabia),
Perhaps you might want to view your French allies role in the post-USS Cole operations . I am sure Al-Qaida really loved that .
Not to mention Afghanistan .

[Adrian II]

I'm just saying that it would seem that the French have taken a position very favorable to Osama's demands (..)

Caution my friend, you are entering the realm of metaphysics.

It amazes me that many Americans are blind to that fact they have so much in common with the French.

1. Cult of individualism. There is no more individualistic culture in the world than French culture. In the U.S. at least individualism has always been mitigated by social control and civil society, churches, sports clubs, etcetera. The French are actually the pure, unadulterated individualists that many Americans imagine themselves to be. If you give a German a gun, he will report it to the authorities. If you give an American a gun, he will take it into to woods to practice. If you give a Frenchman a gun, he will immediately use it to shoot his next-door neighbour.

2. Distrust of authorities. The French distrust, despise and hate their own government and politicians, their national and local authorities, their police, judges and lawyers, their tax collectors and their school boards even more than most Americans. And there is just as much local patriotism, with just as many deep historic roots, in France as there is in the United States.

3. Fixation on national interest. The French state is just as obsessed by the national interest and matters of national security as the American state. At its best, it works to spread (French) republican values around the world. At its worst, it lies, flip-flops and kills in cold blood in order to further French interests around the world.

Sound familiar? Two great nations with conflicting national interests, yet with a similar political outlook. Both have vested interests in the Middle East and act upon them. This has brought them into conflict more than once. For their own national reasons the French have been fighting islamism from the 1970's onwards, at a time when the United States was stimulating islamism as an alternative (and counterweight) against the influence of the Soviet Union in the Arab world and on the subcontinent. And it is hardly fair to say that the French are accommodating Osama bin Laden just because they took an opposite view on Iraq and were proven right. They made their own mistakes, i.e. in Vietnam and Suez, and were berated by the United States which took an oppositie view and was proven right.

I know this is only the Backroom, but it couldn't hurt to see some things in the proper perspective every now and then.

[Idaho]

Truth be told, I cannot find the resource saying Osama's mad about Vienna, but I do remember hearing about it.

Crazed Rabbit

So basically you made it up. Like the bit about 'giving in with embolden them'.

I think in the early post 11/9 days I think Bin Laden, suprised by being placed at the head of this group he previously didn't realise he was head of, decided to make a play for power in Saudi. I think he was hoping for a popular uprising there that he could lead.

He doubtless has fantasies about being the Caliph of Arabia - but I think that's as far as his ambitions went. All this world domination and kill all the infidel stuff is just played up by our governments to scare us into line.

[Sigurd]

If you want to hurt the Norwegians economically you could destroy the land based oil depot/refinery installations e.g. Mongstad, Sture, Kollsnes or Kårstø (the four main ones).
To hurt moral or incite shock would be to kill the entire royal family.
A political blow would be to destroy Stortinget (the great ting) when the entire political leadership were in session.
If you did all three… the effect would be devastating.