Chariot Tests

[Red Harvest]

Ok, this is a modding topic to some degree, but I thought it might interest the bulk of the community. First, there are some historical reasons to slow down chariots--the neck-girth harness being a primary one. I've modded most chariots to "heavy horse" in the descr_mount.txt file to accomplish this.

The main reason I'm posting is that I also changed the scythed chariot horse to "cataphract horse." This looks AWESOME (sorry, I'm not into screenies.) Now the horse and charioteer have similar armour. I didn't realize how good this would look until I tried it. Also, the cataphract horse is slower...that was the primary reason for doing this of course, but the secondary visual effect was a nice bonus.

Another thing I wanted to relate is that I've been fiddling with the new fs_chariot_javelinman skeleton in 1.3. I have converted the light british chariots from archers to javelins for historical reasons. Unfortunately, the unit is very ineffective until various measures are taken. I used the simple british peltast skin that is "hidden" in the game. Javelin attack from a chariot is a problem because the formation is rarely in range--it is too dispersed and the range is too short. With only 18 guys firing on "large" the unit lacked any sting and was very slow about using its missiles. So how to make this into a decent skirmisher? Here is what I did: 1. Changed the mental state to "trained" so that the formation is not so loose. 2. Tightened the formation spacing. 3. Changed range to 65 (from 50). 4. Increased missile attack to 11 with armour piercing. 5. Added a second passenger--effectively doubling the missile firing rate--but left the hitpoints untouched, want them to remain vulnerable. 6. Added 2 points of shield defense to be consistent with the skin/model.

[Ziaelas]

Oh go on, take a screenie, you know you want to ;)

Please, I would like to see how awesome they are before I edit my files.

[zukenft]

The cataphract-on-chariots are indeed cool.
For the chariot javelins, all you've done is right, except increasing the attack stats and range. I think increasing ammo would be better.
oh, and if you're starting from vanilla, jacking up the chariot prices would be nice. These toys are expensive...

[Red Harvest]

The cataphract-on-chariots are indeed cool.
For the chariot javelins, all you've done is right, except increasing the attack stats and range. I think increasing ammo would be better.
oh, and if you're starting from vanilla, jacking up the chariot prices would be nice. These toys are expensive...

No, I tried more ammo first. Doesn't work well at all. They drive around forever without ever being a threat to anyone (killing a few men if they are lucky.)

Javelin wielders rarely can get in range to actually throw. Range must be increased in vanilla RTW for them to work right anyway. I usually leave mounted javs at 50 because they can approach and throw easily, but I set foot at 60 or 65. Chariots are slower to turn, more like foot, hence the need for range. You have to have a higher attack value or the unit is just useless. Besides, these guys would be "elites" as javelinmen, and could be expected to have higher quality javs with substantial thin iron shafts, and to use the speed of the chariot to their advantage. A javelin is more dangerous than an arrow...the flip side is that getting that close is more dangerous to the javelin wielder as well. That is a problem with RTW, the default javelins are fairly weak as it is, up until you get to the skirmisher warband. The firing rate on chariots seems slow...this might be part of the problem. I haven't tried a static timed test of the animation being used.

The other part that is missing is that in real life, these guys were well equipped and could dismount and melee where the opportunity presented. There is not anything I can do about that at the moment. I'm still using the shirtless guys with their small round shield since I don't have 3DMax, etc.

I left prices as they were because they were archers before. Long range attack beats even very powerful javelins in most cases. An archer is a fundamentally stronger unit.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Hey Red, are you planning to make your modifications publicly available? I would be your first customer.
.

[Red Harvest]

I'll try giving the instructions here for how I changed the chariot unit (back up files first, and other standard disclaimers). This is probably not the best way, but it worked:
1. Go to descr_model_battle.txt and exchange the barb chariot archer skeleton to the new javelin skeleton.
2. Also change to the unused british skirmisher warband textures--they didn't have a sprite so I left in the old chariot archer sprite (haven't gotten around to trying another sprite or using the sprite editor--main visible difference is the upper body is darker wit this sprite).
3. Use the existing gaul skirmisher warband model.

type barb_chariot_archer
skeleton fs_chariot_javelinman, fs_chariot_sword
indiv_range 40
texture britons, data/models_unit/textures/unit_barb_warband_peltast_briton.tga
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_warband_peltast_gaul_high.cas, 8
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_warband_peltast_gaul_med.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_warband_peltast_gaul_low.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_warband_peltast_gaul_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite britons, 60.0, data/sprites/britons_barb_chariot_archer_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

4. Insert new information for the unit in export_descr_unit.txt. I added 1 extra man to each chariot. I tightened the formation spacing and trained level. Also added 2 for the shield for consistency, then put int the javelin attributes I wanted.

type barb chariot light briton
dictionary barb_chariot_light_briton ; British Light Chariots
category cavalry
class missile
voice_type Medium_1
soldier barb_chariot_archer, 27, 9, 1
mount barbarian heavy chariot
mount_effect elephant -8, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, frighten_foot, cantabrian_circle
formation 6.5, 7, 12, 12, 2, square
stat_health 1, 2
stat_pri 11, 4, javelin, 65, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown ap
stat_sec 10, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr launching, ap
stat_pri_armour 3, 1, 2, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -2, -4, 2
stat_mental 12, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 500, 170, 50, 80, 500
ownership britons

5. In my own version I changed the horse in descr_mount.txt for the barbarian heavy chariot to "medium horse" rather than "light horse" if I recall correctly. Might change it to "heavy horse" later.

6. Updated the description in export_units for the "British Light Chariots" so that it says they "hurl javelins" rather than shoot arrows. Didn't change the name of the unit, since it didn't mention weapon type.

7. I haven't updated the unit card for this one. It's a chariot, looks close enough for me right now...