islam question

**Papewaio** · 11-09-2005, 01:34

Originally Posted by Weebeast

When people relate America with being free it's the freedom to choose religion. That's true. In Indonesia bunch of muslim fanatics could just close a bar without asking proper law and stuff.

Anyway, don't listen to 'sermon,' just read the holybook[s] yourself.

How many bars in Indonesia have you been to?

**kataphraktoi** · 11-09-2005, 03:57

Keep it simple:

You want to know what a religion/belief system is? Just read their sacred texts and form a conclusion yourself.

You've got to divorce what the sacred texts stand for and what believers do to form your own opinion.

If I was to listen to stupid Mullahs calling for the destruction of Israel of the face of the earth, i would think that Islam was a militant belief system. If you read the Quran, however, it is not so much militant, but more a complete way of lfie that specifies principles, values and beliefs to live by. Likewise, if all I saw were Christian televangelists telling me that I'm not doing God's will if I don't blow my salary to help purchase their gold watches and plush grand church buildings, I'd think that Christianity was one great big con-man's paradise. If you read the Bible, principles such as forgiveness and unconditional love are proscribed as ways to live. The world certainly needs more forgiveness and unconditional love nowadays.

**Watchman** · 11-10-2005, 09:20

A few centuries after the death of Gautama Bussha, a Sri Lankan prince mounted a Buddhist relic on his spear and went on a crusade against his Hindu neighbors. And the Buddhist monasteries of Japan used to sort out their dogmatic disputed with private armies.

The moral of the story ?

It doesn't really matter what a faith teaches - sooner or later someone will kill in its name, and feel extremely pious and justified in doing so. And let's not even get started on the liberties that sooner or later get taken with interpretations for the sake of temporal expediency - the convoluted arguments the Church had to develop to resolve the glaringly obvious discrepancy between the ideals of the warrior class and its masters on one side and the pacifistic ideals of Christianity are a good example of that. Well, actually, it was rather older - regardless of what had once been taught, it became necessary for a Christian to be capable of being a soldier the second the Roman Empire went Christian and had to be defended against invading pagans...

Well, you get the idea. Nothing, but nothing, drags down the noblest of ideals like the practical necessities of an uncaring reality.

**ajaxfetish** · 11-10-2005, 16:53

Well put.

Ajax

**yesdachi** · 11-11-2005, 18:15

Originally Posted by kataphraktoi

Keep it simple:

You want to know what a religion/belief system is? Just read their sacred texts and form a conclusion yourself.

I agree to a point but not completely. The “sacred texts” are sometimes tough to read. As an example many phrases in the bible have been interpreted to mean multiple things. I have participated in a few bible studies and after hearing the way others understood some of the phrases it amazed me how our own experiences cloud the way we understand things we read (note: I don’t blindly trust what the study leader suggested was the true interpretation either, one reason I don’t go anymore). I would recommend a combination of both reading and discussing. (Another note: knowing a religion/belief is often a bit different than knowing the practice of the religion/belief.)

**kataphraktoi** · 11-15-2005, 14:00

When I referred to sacred texts, I mean the parts that are discernible and clear, not the controversial, more esoteric stuff.

Eg. Love your neighbour.

Easy enough to understand. Unless someone manages to turn it into a justification of homosexuality.

It is true that practical realities force revisions of spiritual perspectives but that is the problem. But some religions advocated non-entrenchment within the social system: politics, army, etc, etc.

Martin Luther was funny. He's like an irascible irritable fanatic senior citizen.

Gosh. WHy doesnt everyone just forgive each other....maybe if we did we wouldn't hav3e Total War.

**Incongruous** · 11-19-2005, 00:04

Deos anyone know why people seem to think it ok to bash Christians but when someone bash's Islam Lefty's and Righty's alike bring out the heavy artillery?

**Watchman** · 11-19-2005, 00:33

'Cause Christianity is pretty much something of an "our thing" - so it's okay for us to diss it too. Islam is not "our thing"; it's somebody elses, and that somebody often takes it quite seriously (certainly more so than we thoroughly secularized, cynical, godless Westerners tend to take ours) - so it would be quite rude to diss it, all the more so as our firsthand knowledge tends to be limited indeed.

I for one am perfectly okay with Muslims themselves hitting it with big hammers if they want to, though. That's just a sign of healthy growth.

**Weebeast** · 11-19-2005, 01:17

How many bars in Indonesia have you been to?

I don't know, not many. I'm not into crowded places that much. Why?

**Adrian II** · 11-20-2005, 03:50

Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar

Deos anyone know why people seem to think it ok to bash Christians (..)

It is not OK to bash Christians here and it never has been. People have been warned and berated for it, some have termporarily lost editing, forum access and other privileges because of it. Offensive posts have been deleted or corrected by moderators, posters have apologised for bad posts, and the whole matter has been amply discussed here and in the Watchtower to make doubly sure that everyone got the message.