Standing up for your beleifs

[Idaho]

I think the Old Baby said it best:

A man is born gentle and weak.
At his death he is hard and stiff.
Green plants are tender and filled with sap.
At their death they are withered and dry.

Therefore the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death.
The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.

Thus an army without flexibility never wins a battle.
A tree that is unbending is easily broken.

The hard and strong will fall.
The soft and weak will overcome.

[Kagemusha]

Standing up?

Yes

But not simply for a "belief" but for an actual "purpose" if necessary.

People who were willing to die and kill for a "belief" without questioning the belief and its purpose have probably caused more grief and terror than those who "pussyfoot around".

I think Ser Clegane nailed it.

[Prodigal]

see how much gray area there is

An interesting piece of fiction which looks at the "grey area" subject, Dreams of Scipio by Iain Pears.

And a very big, Hear, Hear to the Owen poem.

[Byzantine Prince]

I disagree.

Well the craving for the feeling of love is not a belief, it's very real in a physical sense. I'm not afraid to stand up for that belief that I hold!

PS: You guys want grey then get a kitty!

[yesdachi]

Just by saying you have a belief is a small demonstration of standing up for it.

I don’t know the best way to word it but I see people standing up for their beliefs all the time, even here at the org. it doesn’t take a declaration and a life or death situation to stand up for ones belief. There have been enough passionate discussions about things I would call peoples beliefs here in the backroom to say most people do stand up for their beliefs. Think of topics like racism, gun control, abortion, and favorite chocolate (frontroom topic but it applies ). I have even seen people who seem to be using “gray” as an excuse not to give a definitive answer be pretty stand up when it comes to a perceived belief.

I say YES, stand up for your beliefs. But know when to compromise (coke better than pepsi? Afraid not, but I’m not going to war over it ).

[Prodigal]

PS: You guys want grey then get a kitty!

Well that's just plain black an white wrong. The only good cats are white, or black & white, no grey about it.

[Geoffrey S]

Always be open-minded. It doesn't mean you have agree to everything you hear, or even believe it, but being open to another person's opinions is the only way to learn something. As far as I'm concerned I have no fixed beliefs, and don't expect that to ever be the case; being completely rigid in one's ways makes dialogue difficult, if not impossible.

People who were willing to die and kill for a "belief" without questioning the belief and its purpose have probably caused more grief and terror than those who "pussyfoot around".

That's pretty much it.

[Togakure]

I think the Old Baby said it best:

A man is born gentle and weak.
At his death he is hard and stiff.
Green plants are tender and filled with sap.
At their death they are withered and dry.

Therefore the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death.
The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.

Thus an army without flexibility never wins a battle.
A tree that is unbending is easily broken.

The hard and strong will fall.
The soft and weak will overcome.

Yes indeed. For Christians, this is echoed in the suggestion to 'be as children,' and "the meek shall inherit the earth." This also supports a "pillar" principle of Aikido--Harmony, Energy, Way. For some, "standing up" becomes blending with discord, redirectly the energy, and transforming it into harmony. By living in this manner, we strive to uphold the Way of Life. We are giving our life with every breath we take, every move we make.

Another common thought comes to mind which relates to this: To think you 'know' something creates barriers to further learning about it. Hence the importance of moving through life with an open Mind. [Kudos, Geoffrey S.]

[Tribesman]

Great men do not see grey in terms of fundamental beliefs, no matter their age.
Hmmm ....wasn't that the funny Austrian fella with a dodgy moustache that said that

[LeftEyeNine]

What does "belief" refer to here anyway ? A communist believes the truth of his ideology while a soldier believes that his nation's survival is worth dying for..

Depends on the situation..

[GoreBag]

Well the craving for the feeling of love is not a belief, it's very real in a physical sense. I'm not afraid to stand up for that belief that I hold!

Sure is. You believe it's not a belief. You must convince yourself, even, that you love at all, or you never will.

[Byzantine Prince]

If you begin to doubt the reality of love then you will have a tough time with me, because you will also have to convince me that the nervous system and the human mind might not exist. To suggest that the feeling of love is unreal is to suggest that nothing is real.

[bmolsson]

Well, you have been standing up for your beliefs long enough you just get tired and need to sit on them for a while....

[Ja'chyra]

If ever a poll needed a Gah option.............

How do you know how you will react? Unless of course you've already been in that siuation, in which case, how do you know how you will react next time?

[AggonyDuck]

I voted no, but that might just be due to me not actually knowing what to believe in. But generally I'd propably tend to avoid losing my life over a belief. What do I actually gain from that?

[GoreBag]

If you begin to doubt the reality of love then you will have a tough time with me, because you will also have to convince me that the nervous system and the human mind might not exist. To suggest that the feeling of love is unreal is to suggest that nothing is real.

But you've already said that that is so, by saying that ultimately, nothing has purpose. I'm not saying it's unreal, I'm saying you created your own sentiments of love and that you continue to foster them as long as you 'believe' you love.

[Watchman]

Standing up ? Beliefs ? Important ?

Who cares ? That's a bridge everyone will have to cross by themselves should it one day become an issue. What some regard as important can be quite trivial to others, and in any case there may be good reasons to cast even the "important" aside - and what's "good reasons" is naturally heavily dependent on the individual.

Oh, people can decide however much they can, and intend however much they want - but ultimately they're only hoping that's the way they'll jump should the push come to shove.

As a side note, I remember painfully clearly what I was like in my teens. That, and observing others in that age these days, has led me to believe that almost without exception at that point of developement people are fervently convinced they know everything, or at least all the important answers, when they actually know nothing. Thankfully most grow out of it within the next ten years. Alas, some never do.

And, yes, they tend to resent being told that.

[AntiochusIII]

Hmm...I wonder how many people who voted yes will still agree with their macho selves when they were thrown into a situation where they had to kill--or die--for their "beliefs." For example, if you have to shoot a Frenchman who would kill you because of your nationality, and would conquer your country if he could. Would you, out of belief, rather than instinct of self defense?

Might I repeat again, sir, that the poll includes dying for your beliefs.

That might change some's opinions. No need to act like a shonen hero, people, you are safe behind the forum mask.

If you begin to doubt the reality of love then you will have a tough time with me, because you will also have to convince me that the nervous system and the human mind might not exist. To suggest that the feeling of love is unreal is to suggest that nothing is real.

I understand the point about the nervous system, necessary social-survival instinct, the brain, and such. But, what are we, then? If one would hold on to that position, the ultimate conclusion would be that we are but artificial, entirely physical beings, and the concept of soul, in any form, would be an utter hoax. There would be no point in anything whatsoever. One would be better off a nihilist than this; at least he'd value himself.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I'm not really a religious person so I voted "no". I know that beliefs are very important to many people, including my gf (whom which now makes me go to church. I sleep).

I know it's important, but I don't really think you absolutely have to stand up for your beliefs. They are beliefs not facts and when you try to push these beliefs on people it gets kind of annoying...

[Togakure]

I voted no, but that might just be due to me not actually knowing what to believe in. But generally I'd propably tend to avoid losing my life over a belief. What do I actually gain from that?

Well, some have believed--and I would guess there are some who still believe--you could gain/retain honor ....

[Byzantine Prince]

But you've already said that that is so, by saying that ultimately, nothing has purpose. I'm not saying it's unreal, I'm saying you created your own sentiments of love and that you continue to foster them as long as you 'believe' you love.

You are saying that my belief in love is simply a illusion because even though it's real I have to believe it exists or else it wouldn't be there. This would also include everything I feel and see and even what I'm reading right now. If you are to reject A, and A exists in the same universe as B, then you are also rejecting everything.

[Kagemusha]

It depends on context.Would i die for my favourite hockey team?No.Would i die protecting my country?propably yes,but i wouldnt want to die.I want to live.Is it important to stand up for your beliefs?It depends on context.

[GoreBag]

You are saying that my belief in love is simply a illusion because even though it's real I have to believe it exists or else it wouldn't be there.

That doesn't make it an illusion; it makes it an extension of your will.

[Strike For The South]

I'm not really a religious person so I voted "no". I know that beliefs are very important to many people, including my gf (whom which now makes me go to church. I sleep).

Dont lie

[Quietus]

You are saying that my belief in love is simply a illusion because even though it's real I have to believe it exists or else it wouldn't be there. This would also include everything I feel and see and even what I'm reading right now. If you are to reject A, and A exists in the same universe as B, then you are also rejecting everything.

The unknown here is the electrochemical reaction inside your head, otherwise known as Consciousness. These reactions somehow become an idea (whichever it is). Surely there's an an electrochemical equivalents for every idea. But these are still largely unknown.

eg. If you hear a sound, how do you separate sound from the meaning of the sound?

[Ja'chyra]

You are saying that my belief in love is simply a illusion because even though it's real I have to believe it exists or else it wouldn't be there. This would also include everything I feel and see and even what I'm reading right now. If you are to reject A, and A exists in the same universe as B, then you are also rejecting everything.

Go back to talking about glory holes, that was much more amusing

[scooter_the_shooter]

I am in between. I know I would probably kill if necessary not out of belief but out of fear.(same as when you back an animal into a corner)

DIE? Probably not... I am a fan of living ya' know!

[Divinus Arma]

i see you are 15 years old. that explains a thread like this, where everything is so black and white.

get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how much gray area there is, and then ask yourself again in 15 years.

I have a family and a mortgage and all the trappings of a middle class life.

It really is this black and white.


And my answer is yes. That's why I'm in the military. That's why I work in Law Enforcement.

And that's why my wife is a servant of this country and our community as she waits for the call that she knows she will one day get.

Wars are not fought only by childless men, remember?


You have to sacrifice to keep this fragile security we all take for granted. Ask anybody who has been to a warzone. Western society never appears the same again one you come back.

[Divinus Arma]

Aye.

Then add another fifteen, Kaiser of Arabia; by that time you will have difficulty seeing anything else but grey. That's when the real men are separated from the sheep. No pun intended.

Seems like some people are hiding behind their age. I see a primary color in this thread and it ain't red or blue.

edit: And BTW, why are some of you folks watering down this topic with "beliefs" about coke vs pepsi and other BS. Nobody is going to kill or die over that. I logically assume PJ means the important things. Just like you liberals "stand up" for your belief that Bush is a Liar. Fine. Go "stand up" when you vote. I also notice that the liberals are the ones arguing against standing up for principle.

When Rosa Parks refused to get her butt to the back of the bus, what would you call that? If it were any of you, then you would move for whitey 'cause it's to much trouble. After all "that's a grey area".

When the US invaded France to kick out the Nazis, what was that? We'd be speaking German if you guys were drafted. Oh wait, these are the same people that ran like hell to canada during 'Nam too.


I am actually sick reading some of these comments. Sick.

edit2: Thank God for people like Redleg, Gawain, Devastation Dave, and myself. Just a few who are willing to give it all up so that you can actually even have this debate.

[Adrian II]

Seems like some people are hiding behind their age. I see a primary color in this thread and it ain't red or blue.

Green!