Standing up for your beleifs

[solypsist]

i see you are 15 years old. that explains a thread like this, where everything is so black and white.

get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how much gray area there is, and then ask yourself again in 15 years.

[Reverend Joe]

Hell, I'm 19, and I already see the gray.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I mean fundementally, which is more important.

[AntiochusIII]

I mean fundementally, which is more important.

Does that make a difference? Fundamentally we are all creatures of survival. Ideals be damned; you could only hold on to your ideals with the cost of your life if your life is that miserable it's more worthy to die than live...or you are brainwashed.

This does not count those whose mental condition is not "normal," though.

So, no.

[Kanamori]

I mean fundementally, which is more important.

There is no "fundamental" since it depends on the situation.

[PanzerJaeger]

get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how much gray area there is, and then ask yourself again in 15 years.

Great men do not see grey in terms of fundamental beliefs, no matter their age.

It is important that people stand up for what is right, not pussyfoot around, because if no one does, then every one suffers.

[Kanamori]

Believing is not the same as knowing.

[AntiochusIII]

Great men do not see grey in terms of fundamental beliefs, no matter their age.

Certainly Bismarch was ready to compromise if it would allow him to nab away a bit more of France, don't you think? How about Thomas Jefferson's presidency? He did compromised a lot. Or even Leo Tolstoy's most productive time being young and flexible, rather than an old, absolute, even possibly pathetic moralist he was in the later years of his life? How about, in fact, Henry Clay, the "Great Pacificator?"

If none of those are great men to you, I'd certainly not like to know what kind of men in your mind makes "the Great."

It is important that people stand up for what is right, not pussyfoot around, because if no one does, then every one suffers.

What is right? If it's your own opinion, then defend yourself, but your neighbor might disagree, and you are in no obligation to "save" him.

I don't really want to go into the "My God is bigger than your god" or "I'm right; you're wrong" scenarios. People are different in opinions and mindset.

[bmolsson]

Age doesn't change the standing up for your beliefs at all. Age does change the beliefs though. With age you become more realistic and don't spend a lot of efforts on irrelevant beliefs......

[Strike For The South]

This is a pretty borad topic We claimed we were standing up to fight oppresion in WW2 and that was good but at the same time this is same logic extremist muslims use to kill innocents. So as of now Gah me baby

[solypsist]

been there, done that with fundamental beliefs. you can have it.

I mean fundementally, which is more important.

[Devastatin Dave]

soly, not picking on you, but is there a belief that you hold that you would consider giving your life for?

[solypsist]

to paraphrase Patton: "You do not win a war by dying for your conutry. You win a war by making the other guy die for his." - I apply that logic to my normal life.

so Dave, you're asking me the wrong question.

soly, not picking on you, but is there a belief that you hold that you would consider giving your life for?

[Papewaio]

It depends on the belief, situation and the cost benefit.

I believe that Coke Cola tastes better then Pepsi... I am not going to go out on a limb and die for that particular belief... it is a definite gray choice.

[Togakure]

i see you are 15 years old. that explains a thread like this, where everything is so black and white.

get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how much gray area there is, and then ask yourself again in 15 years.

What is gray, but black and white in motion?

My answer is: it depends.

This lil kid walked up to a really tall counselor at summer camp who was gettin' a drink from the fountain. He said with a grin, "Hey how's the weather up there?" The almighty counselor spat a mouthful into the kid's face and said, "It's raining. Looks like you need an umbrella."

Get up, stand up ... stand up for your rights! Wa-wo-wo-whoa ...

[AntiochusIII]

What is gray, but black and white in motion?

Ah, but what is white but the many rainbow colours in motion? And what is black but the lack of light? What is ignorance? White because it's supposed to be pure, or black because it lacks the light? What are faith and beliefs? Light or denial of light? Why stand up for one's beliefs if one's self does not understand the beliefs he's holding?

Just playing with you and spamming.

I believe that Coke Cola tastes better then Pepsi... I am not going to go out on a limb and die for that particular belief... it is a definite gray choice.

But...but...if you put the lime in the co(conut)ke? Will some die for, or against that?

It depends on the belief, situation and the cost benefit.

My answer is: it depends.

However, Kaiser clearly states that "standing up for your own beliefs" in this thread include forfeiting one's life:

Is it important to stand up for what you beleive in, or a cause greater than yourself, even if it means your life?

Hence my lack of hesitation to answer no. I'm more realistic than that.

[Byzantine Prince]

No standing up for your beliefs is not good. I prefer to just bend over and let the beliefs speak for themselves.

[bmolsson]

No standing up for your beliefs is not good. I prefer to just bend over and let the beliefs speak for themselves.

Are you French ???

[GoreBag]

I'm more concerned, for the most part, about whether or not someone else is going to kill me for my beliefs. I agree that it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees, but it is hardly a great thing to be fatalistically tied to your own ignorance.

[Togakure]

Just believe strongly that your life is more important than those of others, and then stand up for what you believe in .

[Togakure]

...
However, Kaiser clearly states that "standing up for your own beliefs" in this thread include forfeiting one's life:Hence my lack of hesitation to answer no. I'm more realistic than that.

Ah, but I would gladly forfeit my life in order to protect a loved one, so there are some beliefs I hold for which I would, indeed, forfeit my life. Crazy lil thing called Love.



Gah, BP ... I ain't gonna nitpick with you about that. You know damn well what I was driving at.
|||||||||||||||
VVVVVVVVVVVV

[Byzantine Prince]

Ah, but I would gladly forfeit my life in order to protect a loved one, so there are some beliefs I hold for which I would, indeed, forfeit my life. Crazy lil thing called Love.

Yeah but life is pretty worthless. Hell we should make it blatant and start selling people's lives for oil.

Love is not a belief.

[GoreBag]

Love is not a belief.

I disagree.

[Redleg]

Yeah but life is pretty worthless. Hell we should make it blatant and start selling people's lives for oil.

To answer I shall use a post by Solypsist

get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how worthless life really is. (my change)

Love is not a belief.

Must resist the tempation.

[Byzantine Prince]

I disagree.

Well the craving for the feeling of love is not a belief, it's very real in a physical sense. I'm not afraid to stand up for that belief that I hold!

PS: You guys want grey then get a kitty!

[Adrian II]

i see you are 15 years old. that explains a thread like this, where everything is so black and white.

get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how much gray area there is, and then ask yourself again in 15 years.

Aye.

Then add another fifteen, Kaiser of Arabia; by that time you will have difficulty seeing anything else but grey. That's when the real men are separated from the sheep. No pun intended.

[Tachikaze]

I can't think of a situation where my beliefs would be served by giving my life.

[_Martyr_]

To quote Wilfred Owen:

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares2 we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest3 began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots4
Of tired, outstripped5 Five-Nines6 that dropped behind.

Gas!7 Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets8 just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime9 . . .
Dim, through the misty panes10 and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering,11 choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud12
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest13
To children ardent14 for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.15

[Ser Clegane]

Standing up?

Yes

But not simply for a "belief" but for an actual "purpose" if necessary.

People who were willing to die and kill for a "belief" without questioning the belief and its purpose have probably caused more grief and terror than those who "pussyfoot around".

[Idaho]

I think the Old Baby said it best:

A man is born gentle and weak.
At his death he is hard and stiff.
Green plants are tender and filled with sap.
At their death they are withered and dry.

Therefore the stiff and unbending is the disciple of death.
The gentle and yielding is the disciple of life.

Thus an army without flexibility never wins a battle.
A tree that is unbending is easily broken.

The hard and strong will fall.
The soft and weak will overcome.