Is it important to stand up for what you beleive in, or a cause greater than yourself, even if it means your life?
You know what I voted.
Is it important to stand up for what you beleive in, or a cause greater than yourself, even if it means your life?
You know what I voted.
Why do you hate Freedom?
The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.
i see you are 15 years old. that explains a thread like this, where everything is so black and white.
get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how much gray area there is, and then ask yourself again in 15 years.
Hell, I'm 19, and I already see the gray.
I mean fundementally, which is more important.
Why do you hate Freedom?
The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.
Does that make a difference? Fundamentally we are all creatures of survival. Ideals be damned; you could only hold on to your ideals with the cost of your life if your life is that miserable it's more worthy to die than live...or you are brainwashed.Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
This does not count those whose mental condition is not "normal," though.
So, no.
There is no "fundamental" since it depends on the situation.I mean fundementally, which is more important.
Last edited by Kanamori; 11-09-2005 at 03:38.
Great men do not see grey in terms of fundamental beliefs, no matter their age.get some more life experience, where people depend on you for their lives or livelihood, and see how much gray area there is, and then ask yourself again in 15 years.
It is important that people stand up for what is right, not pussyfoot around, because if no one does, then every one suffers.
Believing is not the same as knowing.
been there, done that with fundamental beliefs. you can have it.
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
soly, not picking on you, but is there a belief that you hold that you would consider giving your life for?
RIP Tosa
Certainly Bismarch was ready to compromise if it would allow him to nab away a bit more of France, don't you think? How about Thomas Jefferson's presidency? He did compromised a lot. Or even Leo Tolstoy's most productive time being young and flexible, rather than an old, absolute, even possibly pathetic moralist he was in the later years of his life? How about, in fact, Henry Clay, the "Great Pacificator?"Originally Posted by PanzerJager
If none of those are great men to you, I'd certainly not like to know what kind of men in your mind makes "the Great."
What is right? If it's your own opinion, then defend yourself, but your neighbor might disagree, and you are in no obligation to "save" him.Originally Posted by PanzerJager
I don't really want to go into the "My God is bigger than your god" or "I'm right; you're wrong" scenarios. People are different in opinions and mindset.
Age doesn't change the standing up for your beliefs at all. Age does change the beliefs though. With age you become more realistic and don't spend a lot of efforts on irrelevant beliefs......
This is a pretty borad topic We claimed we were standing up to fight oppresion in WW2 and that was good but at the same time this is same logic extremist muslims use to kill innocents. So as of now Gah me baby
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
to paraphrase Patton: "You do not win a war by dying for your conutry. You win a war by making the other guy die for his." - I apply that logic to my normal life.
so Dave, you're asking me the wrong question.
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
It depends on the belief, situation and the cost benefit.
I believe that Coke Cola tastes better then Pepsi... I am not going to go out on a limb and die for that particular belief... it is a definite gray choice.
What is gray, but black and white in motion?Originally Posted by solypsist
My answer is: it depends.
This lil kid walked up to a really tall counselor at summer camp who was gettin' a drink from the fountain. He said with a grin, "Hey how's the weather up there?" The almighty counselor spat a mouthful into the kid's face and said, "It's raining. Looks like you need an umbrella."
Get up, stand up ... stand up for your rights! Wa-wo-wo-whoa ...
Last edited by Togakure; 11-09-2005 at 06:11.
Be intent on loyalty
While others aspire to perform meritorious services
Concentrate on purity of intent
While those around you are beset by egoism
misc kanryodo
Ah, but what is white but the many rainbow colours in motion? And what is black but the lack of light? What is ignorance? White because it's supposed to be pure, or black because it lacks the light? What are faith and beliefs? Light or denial of light? Why stand up for one's beliefs if one's self does not understand the beliefs he's holding?Originally Posted by TogakureOjonin
Just playing with you and spamming.
But...but...if you put the lime in the co(conut)ke? Will some die for, or against that?Originally Posted by Papewaio
Originally Posted by PapewaioHowever, Kaiser clearly states that "standing up for your own beliefs" in this thread include forfeiting one's life:Originally Posted by TogakureOjoninHence my lack of hesitation to answer no. I'm more realistic than that.Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
Last edited by AntiochusIII; 11-09-2005 at 05:45.
No standing up for your beliefs is not good. I prefer to just bend over and let the beliefs speak for themselves.
Are you French ???Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
I'm more concerned, for the most part, about whether or not someone else is going to kill me for my beliefs. I agree that it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees, but it is hardly a great thing to be fatalistically tied to your own ignorance.
Just believe strongly that your life is more important than those of others, and then stand up for what you believe in .
Be intent on loyalty
While others aspire to perform meritorious services
Concentrate on purity of intent
While those around you are beset by egoism
misc kanryodo
Ah, but I would gladly forfeit my life in order to protect a loved one, so there are some beliefs I hold for which I would, indeed, forfeit my life. Crazy lil thing called Love.Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
Gah, BP ... I ain't gonna nitpick with you about that. You know damn well what I was driving at.
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Last edited by Togakure; 11-09-2005 at 06:11.
Be intent on loyalty
While others aspire to perform meritorious services
Concentrate on purity of intent
While those around you are beset by egoism
misc kanryodo
Yeah but life is pretty worthless. Hell we should make it blatant and start selling people's lives for oil.Originally Posted by TogakureOjonin
Love is not a belief.
I disagree.Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
To answer I shall use a post by SolypsistOriginally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Originally Posted by SolypsistMust resist the tempation.Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Saying that you don't stand for your believes is a logical fallacy. You see the mere fact that you're saying this is enough proof that there's something that you belief and stand for at other people's attacks.
Now if it's refered to an specifical class of belief then I should say that I don't know, I must be in an extreme situation to see if I'm capable of defendinf it. But I'm pretty headstrong, not good, but just who I'm.
Born On The Flames
Aye.Originally Posted by solypsist
Then add another fifteen, Kaiser of Arabia; by that time you will have difficulty seeing anything else but grey. That's when the real men are separated from the sheep. No pun intended.
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
I can't think of a situation where my beliefs would be served by giving my life.
Screw luxury; resist convenience.
To quote Wilfred Owen:
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares2 we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest3 began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots4
Of tired, outstripped5 Five-Nines6 that dropped behind.
Gas!7 Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets8 just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime9 . . .
Dim, through the misty panes10 and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering,11 choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud12
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest13
To children ardent14 for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.15
Eppur si muove
Standing up?
Yes
But not simply for a "belief" but for an actual "purpose" if necessary.
People who were willing to die and kill for a "belief" without questioning the belief and its purpose have probably caused more grief and terror than those who "pussyfoot around".
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