Post WW1 situation

**Franconicus** · 11-09-2005, 08:50

What happened right after the end of WW1?
Of course I know that the German armies collapsed and that there was a rebellion in Germany ... . And the cuvil war in Russia.
I know that there were German Freikorps. But that is all. Where did they fight? Who was the enemy? I heard that Poland was fighting against the Russians and Germans trying to get more land. Is that correct? That Germans fought communists in the Balticum?

Does anybody have a good website for that?

**Meneldil** · 11-09-2005, 10:29

Well, from the little I know, many european countries sent forces in Russia, in order to help the white russians against the communists (Bolchevik and also Menchevik) until late 1919 : Germany, France, UK, etc. I think the US were also fighting against the Bolcheviks. Around 1920, Menchevik communists and anarchists were fired from the governement and turned against the Bolcheviks (mainly acting as terrorists).
The war against Poland ended in 1920 (I think the Bolchevik lost)
The Allies considered that Russia betrayed them by signing the Brest Litovsk treaty, and decided to cut the country into zones of influence (?) : the English near the white sea, the French got the black sea, Poland and Crimea, the Japanese got Siberia. But in 1919, most of them left the area, IMO because they had enough problem at home and not enough resources nor manpower to fight a foreign and endless war.
Once the Allies left, Trostky achieved to overrun the White Russians by turning the Red Army into a well organised, disciplined, 5.5 million men strong army (the fact many white generals were fighting among themselve kinda helped him btw).
Communist revolutions erupted in many countries : Germany of course (with the Spartakists) but also Hungary, in the 'Republic of Bavaria', etc. There were trouble in Italy an France aswell.

That's probably not the best source, but a french comic (Corto Maltese en Sibérie) shows IMO an accurate description of post WWI Russia.

**cegorach** · 11-09-2005, 11:23

[QUOTE=Franconicus]What happened right after the end of WW1?
Of course I know that the German armies collapsed and that there was a rebellion in Germany ... . And the cuvil war in Russia.

I know that there were German Freikorps.
But that is all. Where did they fight? Who was the enemy?

____________ German volunteer forces fighting in Silesia and Greater Poland against Polish uprisings ( unsuccessfully).

I heard that Poland was fighting against the Russians and Germans trying to get more land. Is that correct?

Well... From our point of view it was reclaiming our territory, especially in Greater Poland. IN the east it was more to create buffor states like Ukraine to undermine Russian Empire, unfortunatelly POland had no support and was too weak to achieve it - the 2nd WW would never happen if we were successfull.

There were smaller wars too

Greece vs Turkey, Poland vs. Lithuania, Poland vs Czech Republic, Hungary vs Romania, Baltic States vs. Russia etc.

Regards Cegorach

**cegorach** · 11-09-2005, 11:36

Around 1920, Menchevik communists and anarchists were fired from the governement and turned against the Bolcheviks (mainly acting as terrorists).

------------> In fact they were removed because Bolshevicks wouldn't tolerate anyone else - they chased off all the deputees elected to the new parliament. Soviet Russia started as nothing else as military dictatorship

The war against Poland ended in 1920 (I think the Bolchevik lost)

------------------> Not enough, though but it saved at least Eastern Europe for next 20 years.

The Allies considered that Russia betrayed them by signing the Brest Litovsk treaty, and decided to cut the country into zones of influence (?) : the English near the white sea, the French got the black sea, Poland and Crimea, the Japanese got Siberia. But in 1919, most of them left the area, IMO because they had enough problem at home and not enough resources nor manpower to fight a foreign and endless war.

--------------> I would rather say that they tried to secure certain areas and send some weapon for the Whites. I wouldn't consider Poland a part of some weird, non-existent western alliance - it was proven in late 1919 when Poles didn't support White offensive because Wites didn't treat us as an independent state + it was rather obvious that countries like the UK or France will accept anything which the White Russia wants in order to have their eastern allies intact - it can be seen in their politics at that time.

Regards Cegorach

**Meneldil** · 11-09-2005, 13:24

Be careful with what you say about the war between Greece and Turkey, or this topic will end closed

**Adrian II** · 11-09-2005, 14:10

Concerning the Allied intervention in post-war Russia, this website gives a good bibliography. I have only read one of them (the first, incidentally) and I remember in particular a spectacular chapter about a Czech regiment or division, originally sent to Siberia to assist the Imperial Russian army, getting stuck on a train in the middle of nowhere and having to negotiate and fight its way back to Prague.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 11-09-2005, 18:14

Originally Posted by Meneldil

Be careful with what you say about the war between Greece and Turkey, or this topic will end closed

.
I, {insert "emperor" in five languages

}, give my blessing.

.

**Craterus** · 11-09-2005, 20:04

I know very little on the rest of Europe, but I know a bit about Germany.

There was a lot of unrest. The Weimar Republic came into power in a seemingly impossible situation. They had to set up a democratic government. Democracy was an unkown concept to the German people. Furthermore, they were angry with Ebert and his government (referred to as the "November Criminals") for signing the armistice. Under the Kaiser, they were being fed the propaganda that the war was being won by Germany. In a matter of weeks, the Kaiser disappears, the propaganda stops, and an armistice is signed. The people have gone from thinking Germany was winning the war, to having to face the fact that they had lost. This led many to hate the Weimar Republic and made things even harder for Ebert to set up his democratic government.

Germany was now weak. Economically struggling from war debts, and the population was in poverty. Things had never been this bad under the Kaiser. Germany had been strong under the Kaiser. The German People hated Weimar and longed for the days of the Kaiser. Setting up this democratic government was not going to be easy.

Ebert also had to deal with extremists. In the early years of the Weimar Republic, Ebert had to deal with Communist rebellions, Freikorp rebellions and many other political groups attempting to seize power from the hated Weimar Republic. First came the Spartacist Revolt in 1919. Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg wanted Germany to be run by a workers council. They launched their bid for power in early 1919. They were joined by rebel soldiers and sailors and set up Soviets in may towns.

Anti-Communist ex-soldiers formed into groups called Freikorps. Ebert made a deal with the commanders of the army and the Freikorps to put down the Spartacist Revolt. The Friekorps win and the Spartacist leaders are executed.

This was very clever by Ebert, he had used one potential enemy to defeat another. When the Freikorps made their attempt at seizing power in March 1920, Ebert was very clever again.

Kapp's Putsch. Wolfgang Kapp was the leader of the Freikorps. He tried to take Berlin in March 1920. This time, Ebert called on the citizens of Berlin to help him. He called a strike. Roads, railways, power, water and sewage services all stopped. Kapp gives up and flees the country.

No-one managed to take power from Weimar, althoguh there were many attempts (including the Nazi attempt in Munich in 1923).

Another problem that the Weimar Republic faced was coping with the Treaty of Versailles. Referred to as the November Criminals, people weren't happy about the treaty. It was disgusting to many Germans. They had to accept war guilt, lose a lot of territory, pay huge amounts of money in reparations and lose a lot of national pride. People weren't happy with the Weimar government, and as I've said this made it hard to set up a democratic government.

The economy was the Weimar Republics final major problem. Paying reparations (along with war debts) smashed the economy to pieces. In January 1923, Ebert's government refused to pay reparations in protest of the French invasion of the Ruhr. He told the workers to go on strike, but this damaged the economy even more. The simple solution to this was to print more money. By printing more money, prices rise. If prices rise, wages have to rise. The rises went to the extreme and Germany's economy was in a state of hyper-inflation. They ended up printing 1,000,000,000 Mark bills. At this point, Stresemann came in to save the day. He scrapped the Mark, and introduced the Rentenmark. They also borrowed a lot of money from the USA in the Young Plan. This made many Germans happy and put the Weimar on the right track. Germany's economy seemed to have stabilised, but the people were oblivious to the huge amounts of money they now owed America, on top of reparations and war debts.

I would continue, but I'm bored, and I'm sure you are too.

**Watchman** · 11-10-2005, 08:43

The Freikorps also went and fought (ostensibly) against the Communists in the Baltic states, although by what I've read of it what they were out after was some sort of "Greater Germany" idea. The local "White" forces were fully aware of this little detail, but weren't exactly in a position to refuse any help they could get even if they full well knew they'd well might end up having to fight the Freikorps themselves once the Reds were dealt with.

AFAIK the sorts of people who signed up into the Freikorps can be summed up as "embittered war vets with few future prospects, nothing better to do, and right-wing political leanings." Angry young men with nothing to do are a troublesome element anywhere. These happened to be ones brutalized by years of the hell of trench warfare to boot...

Side note: the Nazis later nicked a whole lot of details from the Freikorps.

**ShadesPanther** · 11-10-2005, 17:27

Originally Posted by AdrianII

Concerning the Allied intervention in post-war Russia, this website gives a good bibliography. I have only read one of them (the first, incidentally) and I remember in particular a spectacular chapter about a Czech regiment or division, originally sent to Siberia to assist the Imperial Russian army, getting stuck on a train in the middle of nowhere and having to negotiate and fight its way back to Prague.

They were prioners of war sent along siberia. Supposedly they had an argument with one of the cheifs of a town and rebelled with more and more trains arriving and formed an army to fight its way back to Czechoslovakia. They were led by the favourite of the Western Powers to rule Russia(and it's empire). He was betrayed by them though.

Edit:There was a communist revolution in Hungary in 1919 that was crushed By Romania.