Gun owners BEWARE of the AHSA

[scooter_the_shooter]

I think every pro gun American needs to know about these wolves in sheeps clothing, called the American hunters and shooters association I have proof this time (its not like the clinton thread)!

from the NRA

Sometimes The Enemy Wears Camouflage

Sunday, August 14, 2005

You might have recently heard of a new organization claiming to represent hunters and gun owners. The new group calls itself the American Hunters and Shooters Association, a friendly sounding name designed to earn the trust of gun owners and hunters. The reality is that AHSA is nothing more than the enemy in camouflage.

At first glance, everything about AHSA sounds just fine. They even have one useful tool on the website, a history of wildlife conservation laws in America--strange thing is it was lifted nearly word for word from www.NRAILA.org.

In their "Firearms Safety and Training" section we begin to see some curious remarks. For instance in the "Range Safety" section they never once mention that firearms should always be pointed downrange, the first rule in range safety. Another section recommends that shooters use steel wool to clean the barrels of their guns, an idea that makes most gunsmiths cringe. The rest of their safety tips appear to be written by someone who has never hunted. Never once do they mention the three basic rules of safe gun handling by which all shooters know and abide.

A look deeper into the AHSA website quickly reveals that this is no hunters' rights group. You quickly realize that they want to allow the FBI to keep records on law-abiding citizens who buy guns and put an end to gun shows as we know them. Not to mention the fact that they want to regulate .50 caliber rifles in the same way that machine guns are regulated.

The most telling thing about AHSA is its leadership. A quick look at their website shows that Bob Ricker is listed as AHSA Executive Director. Readers will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. A few years ago, Ricker was part of an attempt to sell out your rights by brokering a deal with the most anti-gun administration in history. He then appeared with Bill Clinton in a White House photo-op. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.

A little further down in the leadership section John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most Draconian state gun laws in the nation. Gun laws that Rosenthal would like to see exported to other states.

With leadership like that, there is no doubt about the true goals of AHSA. They are trying to fool hunters and gun owners with a soft sell--a la John Kerry--while working behind the scenes to end the sport that we all love. I fully expect that in the 2006 elections we will see anti-gun Congressional candidates boasting about their AHSA endorsements. Unfortunately, some gun owners will be fooled by this ploy, so help us spread the word that AHSA isn't what it claims to be.

The steel wool thing is shocking that WILL DESTROY the barrel....they are trying to sabotage us!


I sent them an email

You seem less extreme then the NRA GOA etc. Where do you stand on the assault weapon ban and the 1986 import ban? What types of guns do you think should be legal? All of them, or just bolt action rifles and over and under shot guns?

Is it true that you have a multitude of anti gun politicians giving donations to you?

The reason I ask this is I want to join all the pro gun organizations I can but many of my friends say you are the Brady Campaign in disguise.


I will post a response if/when I get one.



here is the site http://www.huntersandshooters.org/

[Dîn-Heru]

You quickly realize that they want to allow the FBI to keep records on law-abiding citizens who buy guns and put an end to gun shows as we know them. Not to mention the fact that they want to regulate .50 caliber rifles in the same way that machine guns are regulated.

I think I saw a story on these gun-shows on 60 minutes some time ago. The details escape me at the moment, but I seem to recall that you could buy more or less anything without form of background check. Is this true?

Now, I am not anti-gun, rifles, shotguns, handguns are fine if you are a hunter or member of a gun-club or need it for work (and I guess home defense), but why does a private citizen need an assault rifle? And from what I have seen of the .50 cal, why should it be widely available, you can not exactly use it on a standard shooting range, can you?

As for federal records of gun ownership, what exactly is wrong with that? If you are a law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about, right? Furthermore, if the gun is stolen you have someone to tell so that you don't get charged if the gun is used in a crime..?

What are the general rules for gun ownership in the US?

Oh, and one final question, (yes, I know, I have asked far too many already, but it is a fascinating topic), is gun ownership a free for all or outright ban issue in the states?

[Redleg]

To answer your question in one sentence - and very simply express for the complex problem of gun laws.

Gun laws are a free for all in every state except for the laws that the Federal government has established.

[Dîn-Heru]

To answer your question in one sentence - and very simply express for the complex problem of gun laws.

Gun laws are a free for all in every state except for the laws that the Federal government has established.

Yes, I gathered as much from the link in the article. But is it such a bipolar issue? (think that is the right word). Because when ever this topic comes up, it seems as though you are either for having access to all sorts of guns, or no guns at all, so is there no middle ground in the debate?

[scooter_the_shooter]

I think I saw a story on these gun-shows on 60 minutes some time ago. The details escape me at the moment, but I seem to recall that you could buy more or less anything without form of background check. Is this true?

Now, I am not anti-gun, rifles, shotguns, handguns are fine if you are a hunter or member of a gun-club or need it for work (and I guess home defense), but why does a private citizen need an assault rifle? And from what I have seen of the .50 cal, why should it be widely available, you can not exactly use it on a standard shooting range, can you?

As for federal records of gun ownership, what exactly is wrong with that? If you are a law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about, right? Furthermore, if the gun is stolen you have someone to tell so that you don't get charged if the gun is used in a crime..?

What are the general rules for gun ownership in the US?

Oh, and one final question, (yes, I know, I have asked far too many already, but it is a fascinating topic), is gun ownership a free for all or outright ban issue in the states?

The back round check depends on which state. Now when you buy a new gun you have to fill out a 4473 which I don't agree with.



Why do I need an assault rifle....they are fun and I am not going to kill any one with out a good reason; why do people think they need to take it away? Plus Assault rifles' are used in less then one percent of gun crimes.

A 50bmg has NEVER I repeat NEVER been used in a crime in the USA...why ban them your average thug can't afford one.

I don't want the federal gov knowing what guns I own because then they can track you down and take them.

If the gun is stolen... you give the serial number to the police, if they find it you get it back. If not well...that what insurance is for!

[scooter_the_shooter]

These are the rules.

No felonies(I don't agree with this, If you cant trust them with a gun why the heck are they out of jail?)

Must be over 18 for rifles and shot guns(this includes ak47s and that sort of thing)

Must be over 21 for hand guns.

You can buy a rifle/shot gun in any state and take it home

To buy a hand gun in a different state it must be sent to a ffl(federal firearms license) holder in your state.


To hold a class 3 item you must get a license and it can't be made after 1986

These are the basics, some wacky state like california won't let you have hi-cap mags and things like that though.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

No felonies(I don't agree with this, If you cant trust them with a gun why the heck are they out of jail?)

You plan on commiting a felony?

I'm 99% certain that you may not get an AK-47 EVER. It - and other automatic weapons - are banned by a Federal law dating back to the 1920's.

Certainly without a whole load of paperwork and liscensing.

As long as it remains legal to get an M1, I don't really give a darn.

[Beirut]

The steel wool thing is shocking that WILL DESTROY the barrel....they are trying to sabotage us!

The only reference I saw to steel wool was to "fine steel wool to remove rust". I don't think that's wrong. The rest of the cleaning instructions looked spot on.

The range safety regulations looked good but did omit having all guns pointed downrange. More than likely a typo. Pobodie's nerfect.

So far I haven't seen anything out of place on that site. I'll look some more.

[scooter_the_shooter]

You plan on commiting a felony?

I'm 99% certain that you may not get an AK-47 EVER. It - and other automatic weapons - are banned by a Federal law dating back to the 1920's.

Certainly without a whole load of paperwork and liscensing.

As long as it remains legal to get an M1, I don't really give a darn.

BS I have an ak47 you can get one in semi auto for $300. Same thing with every full auto gun out there...they make it semi auto and sometimes they change the name IE M1A in stead of M14.

Ya want proof go here http://gunbroker.com/ type in ak47, ar15, uzi etc


In 1934 they made people register full auto fire arms and pay to get a class 3 license. They are not banned and that is after the 20s

in 1986 they made it illegal to import NFA items full auto guns, silencers, grenades that sort of thing. Therefore making the price go through the roof so average joe can't get one.

also

If I can't trust a felon with a gun WHY is he out of jail?

[Beirut]

BS I have an ak47 you can get one in semi auto for $300. Same thing with every full auto gun out there...they make it semi auto and sometimes they change the name IE M1A in stead of M14.
\

What model exactly and from what country is your "AK-47"?

For what it's worth, I had a Valmet M77 which was a heavy barrel .223 (AK action) rifle from Finland, and a Galil .308 (AK action) rifle from Israel.

I think the person asking you was saying you cannot buy a true Russian made AK-47, at least not without a lot of trouble, but I could be wrong.

[Kralizec]

Are you saying it's perfectly fine to trust ex cons, because they're not in jail anymore?

Why do I need an assault rifle....they are fun and I am not going to kill any one with out a good reason

[scooter_the_shooter]

All I wanted was to plink so I bought the cheap WASR_10 from romania

The normal wasr10 only holds 10 rounds but most of the companies that import them opened up the magwell to take the high caps(I got a high cap one)

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...d.asp?Prodid=2


germannese..... What I meant was self defence or something like that. I won't shoot some kid that egged my house that is just stupid.

[Dîn-Heru]

Regarding the .50 cal, yes I am aware that it has not been used in a crime in the US, (kinda too big for easy use). But it is not impossible that it could cause havoc, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in681562.shtml .
I am sure it is fun to shot with, same with assault weapons, but I would not like every Tom, Dick and Harry to have one.

As for the rules you give they seem reasonable enough to me.

Can the government actually take your guns away unless you have done something criminal? Or is this just some scare tactic scenario? I know that the government, (state, town, federal?) can expropriate your property if they see fit to do so, but can they do the same with guns, save in an emergency like the aftermath of Katarina?

If the gun is stolen and you report it to the police, does it end up in a federal database or is it only your town/state police that has the information? Because my point about the FBI lists was that you could then track weapons across state lines if it was stolen.

As for your point about felons, well, the repeat offending rate might be high for certain crimes or people, but you can not easily say in advance who will offend again so it is better to an have a general rule than processing each individual's case, and you cannot keep them in jail longer than they have been sentenced (even if you are the biggest scumbag on earth).

[scooter_the_shooter]

The USA is not the best place to get a gun. There are places where you can buy a full auto ak47 no question asked for less then a semi here!

[scooter_the_shooter]

What model exactly and from what country is your "AK-47"?

For what it's worth, I had a Valmet M77 which was a heavy barrel .223 (AK action) rifle from Finland, and a Galil .308 (AK action) rifle from Israel.

I think the person asking you was saying you cannot buy a true Russian made AK-47, at least not without a lot of trouble, but I could be wrong.

Well no you can't get a rusky one over here with out paper work. But whats the diiference if it is from saiga, vepr, or century arms they all work pretty good.

[Beirut]

Well no you can't get a rusky one over here with out paper work. But whats the diiference if it is from saiga, vepr, or century arms they all work pretty good.

The difference, to a great degree is semantics, which is all too often used as a tool in the gun control debate.

The point is that a true AK-47 is fully automatic and people will assume when you say you have an AK-47 that you have a real AK-47 and not a semi-auto copy.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

You plan on commiting a felony?

I'm 99% certain that you may not get an AK-47 EVER. It - and other automatic weapons - are banned by a Federal law dating back to the 1920's.

Certainly without a whole load of paperwork and liscensing.

As long as it remains legal to get an M1, I don't really give a darn.

Most assault rifle makers make a civilian semi-Auto or 3-round-burst variant of their weapons so Civilians can buy them, AFAIK.

Though I just want an SVD, I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.

[Beirut]

Most assault rifle makers make a civilian semi-Auto or 3-round-burst variant of their weapons so Civilians can buy them, AFAIK.

I don't think so. Three-round bursts with one trigger pull are still considered full auto.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Most assault rifle makers make a civilian semi-Auto or 3-round-burst variant of their weapons so Civilians can buy them, AFAIK.

Though I just want an SVD, I doubt that'll happen anytime soon.

kaiser 3 rd burst is class 3 also sadly(sorry to destroy your hope of bursting away.)


You missed your chance to get an svd from cdnn they had them from saiga for $999 (which is good) don't go get one of those cheap long barreled Ak clones that claim to be svds.

You should look at an m1a 308 and very accurate! Cost alot though




If you are into guns kaiser go here

http://cdnninvestments.com/ (guess where I am doing my xmas shopping ) They have other stuff besides guns. Good deals on scopes, knives, mags, holsters and more!

Load up the catolauge FN hi powers for $400, Lots of police trade ins also.

[Kralizec]

germannese..... What I meant was self defence or something like that. I won't shoot some kid that egged my house that is just stupid.

Fair enough, but I never fully swallowed the self defense argument when it comes to anything bigger then handguns.
Do people carry them to work, to malls, have them in the backseat of the car just in case somebody might mug them in public?
Do you keep them under your pillow so you have them handy when somebody enters your house?

Why isn't a handgun enough to defend yourself? Are assault rifle owners worried they might get attacked by the North Korean army in their backyard

Finally, what sounds better:
A) A guy broke into my house and I saw myself forced to shoot him 3 times with my 6-shot revolver
B) A guy broke into my house and I saw myself forced to perforate him with my M-16 with night vision, 72-round drum magazine and laser pointer

?

[scooter_the_shooter]

The revolver obviously but Assualt rifles are great fun to shoot. Go to a 3 gun match some time!

[Kralizec]

Well, I think that shooting could be real fun. Call me a hypocrite, but I can see myself signing up for a shooting range when I'm older (though not for automatics, even if they're later allowed)

Till then, paintball is pretty damn fun even if it's a rather silly substitute. Plus, you get to shoot your friends

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I don't think so. Three-round bursts with one trigger pull are still considered full auto.

Really? I didn't know that. Then it's just Semi-Auto.

Though I have to say, I perfer accuracy over RoF. That's why I love the MG-42, has both pretty much. But I'll always love Sniper Rifles.

Anyone know how much a Mauser KAR-98k goes for these days?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Fair enough, but I never fully swallowed the self defense argument when it comes to anything bigger then handguns.
Do people carry them to work, to malls, have them in the backseat of the car just in case somebody might mug them in public?
Do you keep them under your pillow so you have them handy when somebody enters your house?

Why isn't a handgun enough to defend yourself? Are assault rifle owners worried they might get attacked by the North Korean army in their backyard

Finally, what sounds better:
A) A guy broke into my house and I saw myself forced to shoot him 3 times with my 6-shot revolver
B) A guy broke into my house and I saw myself forced to perforate him with my M-16 with night vision, 72-round drum magazine and laser pointer

?

1. Since I don't have any guns in my house (my gramps has 'em down in WV), I sleep with a knife (12 inch dagger) under my pillow, and a cavalry saber (crappily sharpened) next to my bed. I have a knife (5 inch Herbertz) near me at almost all times (Except when I'm in school).

2. A handgun probably could defeat the North Korean Army

3. B.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Really? I didn't know that. Then it's just Semi-Auto.

Though I have to say, I perfer accuracy over RoF. That's why I love the MG-42, has both pretty much. But I'll always love Sniper Rifles.

Anyone know how much a Mauser KAR-98k goes for these days?

3-400 $$$(for german) You can get a yugoslavian mauser which is the same thing...still in the cosmoline for 1-200 dollars! get the YUGO and you can get 75 8mm mauser rounds for 5-7 dollars! (they are corrosive though) or better yet get a mosin nagant for 70 dollars

go to any local gun show and you will see all the stuff I listed and more, They will probably have enfields and k31s also. Don't buy the enfield though they bolts are pretty strange on the earlier ones.(not enough metal behind them)



Kaiser xmas is coming get your self a nice sks.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

3-400 $$$(for german) You can get a yugoslavian mauser which is the same thing...still in the cosmoline for 1-200 dollars! get the YUGO and you can get 75 8mm mauser rounds for 5-7 dollars! (they are corrosive though) or better yet get a mosin nagant for 70 dollars

go to any local gun show and you will see all the stuff I listed and more, They will probably have enfields and k31s also. Don't buy the enfield though they bolts are pretty strange on the earlier ones.(not enough metal behind them)



Kaiser xmas is coming get your self a nice sks.

You need a liscence to get an old WWII era-rifle, right? If so, I'd have to somehow circumvent my evil-hippy-anti-freedom family to get the liscence before X-Mas.

[Beirut]

3-400 $$$(for german) You can get a yugoslavian mauser which is the same thing...still in the cosmoline for 1-200 dollars! get the YUGO and you can get 75 8mm mauser rounds for 5-7 dollars! (they are corrosive though) or better yet get a mosin nagant for 70 dollars

go to any local gun show and you will see all the stuff I listed and more, They will probably have enfields and k31s also. Don't buy the enfield though they bolts are pretty strange on the earlier ones.(not enough metal behind them)



Kaiser xmas is coming get your self a nice sks.

A Mosin-Nagant over a KAR-98? Gah! (I think you were kidding though. You were kidding though, weren't you?) You do have to watch out for people faking Nazi markings on them and driving up the price. I'll have to dig out my book about German sniper rifles by Peter Senich, he was the curator for the firearms display at the Smithsonian. This book has all the info.

Are you talking about the Lee-Enfields? I've owned a few and they are great rifles. I had a 1917 issue MKIII and it was a very solid rifle.

I owned an SKS once. Completely reliable, solid, very, very inexpensive and as aesthetically pleasing as a pimple. As far as semi-autos go, you would be hard pressed to find a better deal. Mine even had the fold out triangular bayonet. Cost me $200 with a cleaning kit and a couple of boxes of ammo.

[scooter_the_shooter]

No that is just to order them online you need a c&r license for that. To go buy them at the local gunshow all you need is the cash and some one old enough to buy it.

See if the dealer running the table will give you a bayonet too (alot of them throw that sort of thing in with the rifle)

Also if you get a new one there will be this icky grease stuff on it called cosmoline, It is sort of like vasoline and a pain to get off. But it is all worth it!

[scooter_the_shooter]

A Mosin-Nagant over a KAR-98? Gah! (I think you were kidding though. You were kidding though, weren't you?) You do have to watch out for people faking Nazi markings on them and driving up the price. I'll have to dig out my book about German sniper rifles by Peter Senich, he was the curator for the firearms display at the Smithsonian. This book has all the info.

Are you talking about the Lee-Enfields? I've owned a few and they are great rifles. I had a 1917 issue MKIII and it was a very solid rifle.

I owned an SKS once. Completely reliable, solid, very, very inexpensive and as aesthetically pleasing as a pimple. As far as semi-autos go, you would be hard pressed to find a better deal. Mine even had the fold out triangular bayonet. Cost me $200 with a cleaning kit and a couple of boxes of ammo.

I have had 3 ww2 vets(at the gun show) tell me about enfields bolt. They said after awhile it gets weak and when you shoot it will unlock and smack you in the eye. If its true or not I don't know but I sure do not want to find out

They were also trying to sell their mausers so....


I was joking about the mosin. As far as I am concerned it is a spear that throws bullets

The funniest thing I ever saw at the gun show was a guy who put a swatstika on a mosin and tried to pass it off as a ww2 mauser from a concnetration camp

A 70 dollar gun for 700

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Ceasar - I thought you meant a full auto AK-47, which sure as hell are not readily available general public.