Re-Emerging factions

[Ciaran]

I´d like to know whether or not you have experience with re-emerging factions that actually accomplish more than just, well to come back and sit in that respective province. Did you ever experience a faction coming back and getting powerful again?
I need to liven up my Italian campaign a bit, it´s only 1269 and I´ve conquered already over 60%. The only ones potentially able to give me a decent fight are the English and Spanish, so, in order to have a bit more of a challenge, I´m thinking about abandoning a good part of my lands, hoping some factions come back. But I´m afraid they´ll just sit about and wait to be mercilessly crushed again because they can´t afford to do anything else, without trade (which requires ships, and those aren´t handed out in a comeback) and only those paltry farming incomes.

[miho]

I´d like to know whether or not you have experience with re-emerging factions that actually accomplish more than just, well to come back and sit in that respective province. Did you ever experience a faction coming back and getting powerful again?
I need to liven up my Italian campaign a bit, it´s only 1269 and I´ve conquered already over 60%. The only ones potentially able to give me a decent fight are the English and Spanish, so, in order to have a bit more of a challenge, I´m thinking about abandoning a good part of my lands, hoping some factions come back. But I´m afraid they´ll just sit about and wait to be mercilessly crushed again because they can´t afford to do anything else, without trade (which requires ships, and those aren´t handed out in a comeback) and only those paltry farming incomes.

I think they do nothing because they are are dead broke. Anyway would you consider this as a chalange?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I once had the French reemerge while I was at war with the English (they held all of France and England, I was the Danes). They took almost all of England's provinces on the mainland, but none of their provinces on the Isle. Basically they broke the English's back, gave me the oppurtunity to amphibiously assault Britain and if I hadn't been sucked into a war with them could have been quite powerful for some time. Anyway because of their large armies and many rebellions it took me quite some time to put them down.

I'd say they accomplished something, but I suppose you could argue against that.

[miho]

You just took advantage of the situation. The question is can they build more troops and do something else than to defend. When the French reappeared they had more men than the Horde but all they did was defending from me.

[Martok]

I have on very rare occasions seen a resurrected faction actually become strong again, but it's definitely the exception to the rule--I could easily count on one hand the number of times where that happened. And in the few cases where they did become a power once more, it was always the French or Egyptians. It probably helps that they tend to respawn in rich provinces (at least in my games they do).

[Lars Jorgensun]

Once I was playing as the Elmoheads and the spanish remerged with 2-3 stak armies in every spanish province. I had to retreat to the desert but right then was when my egyptian allies broke truce. I beat the egyptians, but the spanish had reclamied all but portugal, but I lost that to a rebellion a couple years later. After about 20 years they started launching crusades against me, and destroyed me. I was under pressure from the Byz's, English, and German and Spanish Crusades, and an Egyptian reemergence as well. It was a glorious (however exceedingly rare end)

[Ciaran]

I´ve tried and it didn´t quite work: even when I retreated all troops and raised axes to "very high" they still remained loyal for a while. And when finally one or two provinces decided to rebel, they became ordinary rebels, no reemerging faction I´ll have to conquer all of the world and start a new game.

[dgfred]

Once I was playing as the Elmoheads and the spanish remerged with 2-3 stak armies in every spanish province. I had to retreat to the desert but right then was when my egyptian allies broke truce. I beat the egyptians, but the spanish had reclamied all but portugal, but I lost that to a rebellion a couple years later. After about 20 years they started launching crusades against me, and destroyed me. I was under pressure from the Byz's, English, and German and Spanish Crusades, and an Egyptian reemergence as well. It was a glorious (however exceedingly rare end)

The AIs don't seem to mind piling on you when you are on the bottom, but
when another AI is vulnerable- they just sit there .

[ajaxfetish]

I think a large part of it depends on the factions programmed disposition. If they like to defend or are otherwise timid there's very little chance of them becoming big on a re-emergence because they'll wait too long to start expanding and use up all their cash.

If they're an aggressive/expansionist faction there's a larger chance they'll make a good showing of themselves because they'll actually use those big armies they start with, thinning their upkeep costs and increasing their income simultaneously.

Ajax

[miho]

Their behaviour plays a big part in their actions. you can change it by modding the game.

[Knight Templar]

Yes, I had many cases re-emerging factions becoming strong again, but I don't think their behavior in startpos files has something to do with it. It's only a variable that influnces the faction's behaviour in the first years. But the faction's behaviour is very changable and depends a lot on situation in the game. Most of the factions, set as expansionist or not, will attack you or any other fation if there is a good opportunity. I've seen many, many times in my campaigns, Almohads, declared as peaceful nation in the startpos file, becoming poweful and aggresive neighbour.

[m52nickerson]

I have seen the Pope came back and whip seven shades of hell out of everyone. Pushed me all the way back to Poland the one game. Other then the Pope, no faction that has come back has ever done any real damage.

[scozzy99]

you could always cheat and use the .nuttermode. cheat.... i believe this increases the AI's levels of aggression to that of the currently banned turkish weightlifting team....

[miho]

A reason why they rarely grow big again might be the type of troops they get. In my current game the English king died heirless (with the help of my grand inquisitors) and Almohads reappeared in all of Spain and Africa (except Egypt). They have big armies but 80% of them are archer type units.

[Bregil the Bowman]

I have seen the Pope came back and whip seven shades of hell out of everyone. Pushed me all the way back to Poland the one game. Other then the Pope, no faction that has come back has ever done any real damage.

It's the Pope who is proving to be the comeback kid in my current campaign. I'm Spain, championing the Catholic cause. He was having problems with the Sicilians, who had taken Rome, so I weighed in on his side. Unfortunately he made an ill-advised counter attack and got wiped out before I had finished driving the Sicilian king out of Italy.

A couple of turns later he re-emerged with a couple of big stacks - mainly feudal sergeants, urban militia and mounted sergeants, but a couple of knights as well, not a bad mix for early-Early. And he did it in Rome just as I was erecting monuments to the glory of the last Pope... So being a good Catholic I abandoned Rome to His Holiness, expecting kudos and brownie points etc.

Since then he has wasted no opportunity to attack me. I had to keep huge stacks in Naples, as did the Italians in the North, to deter Papal aggression. I didn't realise that you can be at war with the Pope and not get excommunicated because HE's the aggressor. He seems to be rebuilding the armies that I slaughter when he attacks as well. Not for long though, His Most Catholic Majesty of Spain is losing patience...

[Ciaran]

Yes, the pope always comes back to life quite forcefully and unlike other factions it doesn´t matter whether loyalty in Rome is 200% in your favour or not, he´ll come back anyways after some time. And he never seems to be able to keep his fingers from the provinces around after some time of waiting.
He must be pretty wealthy on his comebacks, too, because I reduced Rome to rabble, but a couple of years later he had built up a basic infrastructure, despite having to fund this huge army of his.

[dgfred]

that Pope Bregil.

[m52nickerson]

Best Pope control........Burn Rome to the ground then let him have it back, just to attack the Paple state and raze it. Leave him in Rome with no buildings, and just a few troops. Think of him as a pet, use that 5 star assassin to keep him under control.

[antisocialmunky]

You can always sick him with grand inquisistors for fun. Something about atheist popes burning at the stake is just somewhat amusing.

One in in my big English campaign, the Spanish tried to invade me for some stupid reason so I bashed them out of the Pyrennes, Leon, and Castille and all but the provence(It was some chunk of North Africa - everything from Portugal and Cordoba to Egypt rebelled) the king was in had reemerged with tons and tons of Almohad Urban Militia and Muhawudi Foot Soldiers. I'm sure they had fun down there. The Spanish won everything back only to attack me again and have every one of their provences in North Africa and Cordoba to GO INTO REBELLION which the ALMOHAD PROMPTLY REEMERGED IN and turned all the Muslim rebels to them.

I kinda fell bad for them... but atleast it got rid of all those stupid javelin spam armies that they threw at me. They won though and ended up surrounding the lone Almohad provence.

[Bregil the Bowman]

that Pope Bregil.

Your wish is my command, Sieur.

Lured him into splitting his armies in two, then dealt with them piecemeal. He will utter no more benedictions in this world.

I suppose this means I will get another re-emergence in time, with bigger and better troops. But by this time I should be in a good position to counter. The only real threats in this campaign were the Poles and the Horde, and within a couple of turns both of their kings died without heirs, without any assistance from me. Curious twist of fate... The English faction also dissolved into anarchy, but that was because they didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Re-emergences are going to be the chief menace from now on, I will let you know if anything interesting comes up (like Gothic Knights and Serpentines).

[antisocialmunky]

You know, if you piss off the pope enough times, he'll go rabid and start killing everyone in Europe with the ultimate goal of turnign the map eggshell white.

[Roark]

I've seen psycho Hitler Pope a couple of times, with his own navy.

I've seen the Swiss totally gut a bloated HRE and irrevocably divide Europe into two with those sweet halberdiers.

I also once saw the French kingdom re-emerge in Flanders, and then the whole blue blob slowly migrated East to Constaninople, with the English prodding them from behind. It looked insane, but the constant destruction of buildings along the way meant that the French slowly teched themselves down into fodder for the Egyptians, whereas the English had kept all of their prior-owned territories. Hard to explain...

[dgfred]

Bregil- 'The English didn't expect the Spanish Inquisitions'

[ajaxfetish]

Well, of course. 'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.'

Ajax

[.:vVv:.Monkey]

Well, of course. 'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.'

Ajax

Lmao, god bless Monty Python!

[drone]

Well, of course. 'Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.'

Ajax

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

I haven't checked, is there a Cardinal Ximinez, Biggles, or Fang in the game?