Official World Cup Thread

[Dutch_guy]

Originally Posted by BBC
This was the first ever World Cup victory for (West) Germany through an injury-time goal. Three times before, Germany have won a World Cup match with the winning goal being scored in the last five minutes. The last time this happened, Oliver Neuville was also the scorer. On 15 June 2002, Neuville's 88th minute goal gave Germany a 1-0 victory over Paraguay in the second round.

OK, I'll give you that. I'll accept the fact this is the first time they actually scored in the last minute. Although my meaning was clear, as I was referring to the 3 times they scored in the last 5 minutes. Stealing a victory like that is just as cunning as it is undeserved. Please note that I am not talking about yesterdays match when I mentioned underserved win.

(I don't think that Poland would have had reason to complain is the final score had been 3-0)

Indeed you are right, now they can argue they were just as good as the Germans, but just lacked the fortune the Germans had. And that is also how such a late goal is perceived most of the time. But we just went over that.

A 3 - 0 on the other hand, says it all.

[Ser Clegane]

Stealing a victory like that is just as cunning as it is undeserved.

How is scoring in the last 5 minutes "stealing a victory", "cunning" or "undeserved"?
Would you use the same words if it was the Dutch team that scored a winning goal during the last 5 minutes of a game (i.e., within the regular time - not quite sure what the last 5 minues are supposed to be used for if not for trying to win by scoring goals)?

now they can argue they were just as good as the Germans, but just lacked the fortune the Germans had.

Not if they had seen the game... (I wonder a bit on which basis you are making such statements if you haven't seen the game)

[Fragony]

Oh common, germany was the better team and they deserverd to win. I feel sorry for Poland to lose in such a way, but in the end I am glad Germany scored. Must have been that angel on the goal we temporarly borrowed them.

[Dutch_guy]

How is scoring in the last 5 minutes "stealing a victory", "cunning" or "undeserved"?

Well if a team, any team, is obviously the lesser one on the field and then manages to score a winning goal in the last 5 minutes of the game, I call that ''stealing a victory'' and the ensuing win ''underserved''. Germany has been the victim of this kind ilfortune, but has also done it a few times.

I do hope I made it clear that I wasn't talking about yesterdays game because I had not seen that game. I merely heard Germany was way better than Poland. And thus deserved to win. I was talking in a general sense.

Would you use the same words if it was the Dutch team that scored a winning goal during the last 5 minutes of a game (i.e., within the regular time - not quite sure what the last 5 minues are supposed to be used for if not for trying to win by scoring goals)?

If we were the lesser team, and scored in the last 5 minutes of the game - then yes, I would not consider that a great win and certainly underserved. I'm not argueing the last 5 minutes should be spent merely passing the ball round in the defence, but I did make it clear how I feel about a team who clearly steals a victory - in those last minutes. Again... I'm not talking about yesterdays game

Not if they had seen the game... (I wonder a bit on which basis you are making such statements if you haven't seen the game)

Indeed, note how I was talking about those who hadn't seen the game, not my own perception of the score,and thus only had the final score to make their judgement upon.

[Ser Clegane]

Well if a team, any team, is obviously the lesser one on the field and then manages to score a winning goal in the last 5 minutes of the game, I call that ''stealing a victory'' and the ensuing win ''underserved''. Germany has been the victim of this kind ilfortune, but has also done it a few times.

I do hope I made it clear that I wasn't talking about yesterdays game because I had not seen that game. I merely heard Germany was way better than Poland. And thus deserved to win. I was talking in a general sense.

You were actually directly referring to the other three times that Germany won due to a goal in the last 5 minutes:

Although my meaning was clear, as I was referring to the 3 times they scored in the last 5 minutes. Stealing a victory like that is just as cunning as it is undeserved.

Why was it "undeserved" and "stealing" in those three games? (prehaps you know more than I do, for I do not even know which games that would be apart from the Paraguay game in 2002)

I have a bit the feeling that you still have the 1974 Worldcup finals in mind when you refer to the German team undeservedly "stealing a victory"

[Dutch_guy]

You were actually directly referring to the other three times that Germany won due to a goal in the last 5 minutes:

It seems you're right ! Which is strange since I wasn't meaning to reffer to those 3 times they scored in the last 5 minutes, really , I don't know why I wrote that. Sorry for that.

Oh and for the record, those 3 games did give the German team quite a reputation.

I have a bit the feeling that you still have the 1974 Worldcup finals in mind when you refer to the German team undeservedly "stealing a victory"

Well not really, in that game the Germans scored twice in the first half (or very early in the second, don't know for sure), meaning we still had more than enough time left to repair the damage. A shame we lost, the individual class of our players was better, but we lost - we should have made a goal, we didn't. As much as I would like to say you stole the win, you didn't. Though I do maintain we had the better player, but that doesn't automaticly win you the game as was the case in '74.

Long story... Petkovic called his son to WC then he sent him home as Serbian public became mad. Pure nepotism. He called Nenad Djordjevic to be right back and he put him into game. It was the first great game for Djordjevic. And of course Roben did what he wanted on Serbian right side in first half. Koroman did't played from start. Savo Milosevic played in attack beacause he need now only one game to rich his 100 game for national team. Not to mention coward tactics - so called "bunker"

.

I must say the Serbs did impress me, especially Koroman and Zigic, they were close an several occaisions.

We can beat Argentina with drastical change in tactics and some players must play from start like Zigic and Koroman.

What tactical changes would you say are needed to beat Argentina ?