Official World Cup Thread

[DukeofSerbia]

Czech Republic is my secret favourite for winning WC.

Serbia can play much better, but team couch Petkovic choosed 100% wrong tactics against Holland with some wrong players.

[Dutch_guy]

Ah...as I didn't see the Poland - Germany game I wasn't really surprised they won, judging by their earlier performances.

All in all it's a bitter defeat for the Poles, a draw or even a Polish win would have made the group stage a lot more interesting.
Still, good job Germany!

What for? For winning when they were clearly the better team?

No, probably for scoring in the last minute and failing to do so earlier because they were the better team. They have had a long history of scoring in the last minute, and even more so with beating teams in that fashion when their adversaries were clearly better - even though from what I've read they were clearly better than the Poles in yesterdays match.

Serbia can play much better, but team couch Petkovic choosed 100% wrong tactics against Holland with some wrong players.

What would you have done, if you were the coach ?

[Ser Clegane]

They have had a long history of scoring in the last minute, and even more so with beating teams in that fashion when their adversaries were clearly better - even though from what I've read they were clearly better than the Poles in yesterdays match.

Actually they haven't such a history:

This was the first ever World Cup victory for (West) Germany through an injury-time goal. Three times before, Germany have won a World Cup match with the winning goal being scored in the last five minutes. The last time this happened, Oliver Neuville was also the scorer. On 15 June 2002, Neuville's 88th minute goal gave Germany a 1-0 victory over Paraguay in the second round.

BBC

And as you said - they were clearly better (I don't think that Poland would have had reason to complain is the final score had been 3-0)

[Dutch_guy]

Originally Posted by BBC
This was the first ever World Cup victory for (West) Germany through an injury-time goal. Three times before, Germany have won a World Cup match with the winning goal being scored in the last five minutes. The last time this happened, Oliver Neuville was also the scorer. On 15 June 2002, Neuville's 88th minute goal gave Germany a 1-0 victory over Paraguay in the second round.

OK, I'll give you that. I'll accept the fact this is the first time they actually scored in the last minute. Although my meaning was clear, as I was referring to the 3 times they scored in the last 5 minutes. Stealing a victory like that is just as cunning as it is undeserved. Please note that I am not talking about yesterdays match when I mentioned underserved win.

(I don't think that Poland would have had reason to complain is the final score had been 3-0)

Indeed you are right, now they can argue they were just as good as the Germans, but just lacked the fortune the Germans had. And that is also how such a late goal is perceived most of the time. But we just went over that.

A 3 - 0 on the other hand, says it all.

[Ser Clegane]

Stealing a victory like that is just as cunning as it is undeserved.

How is scoring in the last 5 minutes "stealing a victory", "cunning" or "undeserved"?
Would you use the same words if it was the Dutch team that scored a winning goal during the last 5 minutes of a game (i.e., within the regular time - not quite sure what the last 5 minues are supposed to be used for if not for trying to win by scoring goals)?

now they can argue they were just as good as the Germans, but just lacked the fortune the Germans had.

Not if they had seen the game... (I wonder a bit on which basis you are making such statements if you haven't seen the game)

[Fragony]

Oh common, germany was the better team and they deserverd to win. I feel sorry for Poland to lose in such a way, but in the end I am glad Germany scored. Must have been that angel on the goal we temporarly borrowed them.

[Dutch_guy]

How is scoring in the last 5 minutes "stealing a victory", "cunning" or "undeserved"?

Well if a team, any team, is obviously the lesser one on the field and then manages to score a winning goal in the last 5 minutes of the game, I call that ''stealing a victory'' and the ensuing win ''underserved''. Germany has been the victim of this kind ilfortune, but has also done it a few times.

I do hope I made it clear that I wasn't talking about yesterdays game because I had not seen that game. I merely heard Germany was way better than Poland. And thus deserved to win. I was talking in a general sense.

Would you use the same words if it was the Dutch team that scored a winning goal during the last 5 minutes of a game (i.e., within the regular time - not quite sure what the last 5 minues are supposed to be used for if not for trying to win by scoring goals)?

If we were the lesser team, and scored in the last 5 minutes of the game - then yes, I would not consider that a great win and certainly underserved. I'm not argueing the last 5 minutes should be spent merely passing the ball round in the defence, but I did make it clear how I feel about a team who clearly steals a victory - in those last minutes. Again... I'm not talking about yesterdays game

Not if they had seen the game... (I wonder a bit on which basis you are making such statements if you haven't seen the game)

Indeed, note how I was talking about those who hadn't seen the game, not my own perception of the score,and thus only had the final score to make their judgement upon.

[Ser Clegane]

Well if a team, any team, is obviously the lesser one on the field and then manages to score a winning goal in the last 5 minutes of the game, I call that ''stealing a victory'' and the ensuing win ''underserved''. Germany has been the victim of this kind ilfortune, but has also done it a few times.

I do hope I made it clear that I wasn't talking about yesterdays game because I had not seen that game. I merely heard Germany was way better than Poland. And thus deserved to win. I was talking in a general sense.

You were actually directly referring to the other three times that Germany won due to a goal in the last 5 minutes:

Although my meaning was clear, as I was referring to the 3 times they scored in the last 5 minutes. Stealing a victory like that is just as cunning as it is undeserved.

Why was it "undeserved" and "stealing" in those three games? (prehaps you know more than I do, for I do not even know which games that would be apart from the Paraguay game in 2002)

I have a bit the feeling that you still have the 1974 Worldcup finals in mind when you refer to the German team undeservedly "stealing a victory"

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I agree, the red card and PK should not have occured. The Ukranian defender pulled his shorts a little outside the box, but let go while inside. The thing was though, that pulling of the shorts isn't really called unless it's really blatant and that is not what the referee called. He called the red card for when the Spain player tripped and fell on his own butt.

Equador - 2 vs. Costa Rica - 0

This game seemed a bit one sided. Everyone thinks Equador is so great and everything. You know what? Germany is going to put them back in their place. You'll see.

[Dutch_guy]

This game seemed a bit one sided. Everyone thinks Equador is so great and everything. You know what? Germany is going to put them back in their place. You'll see.

Well it'll most certainly be an interesting match, I think both teams will go all the way considering they both want to have the best qualifications for the quarter finals !

[DukeofSerbia]

What would you have done, if you were the coach ?

Hoi.

Long story... Petkovic called his son to WC then he sent him home as Serbian public became mad. Pure nepotism. He called Nenad Djordjevic to be right back and he put him into game. It was the first great game for Djordjevic. And of course Roben did what he wanted on Serbian right side in first half. Koroman did't played from start. Savo Milosevic played in attack beacause he need now only one game to rich his 100 game for national team. Not to mention coward tactics - so called "bunker".

We can beat Argentina with drastical change in tactics and some players must play from start like Zigic and Koroman.

How Croats played against Brasil brave?

Netherlands is average team and nothing more.

[Bar Kochba]

2-0 to england!!!!!

[Goalie]

Hehe, England got owned for 83 min. I found it hillarious that England's goalie got megged even though it didn't count.

[DukeofSerbia]

And as you said - they were clearly better (I don't think that Poland would have had reason to complain is the final score had been 3-0)

It seems that Polish players are happy with fact they reached WC. Now they play as group of tourists.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

There are several criticisms that could have been made of the team, but the bottom line is England have won two games, are through to the second round, and haven't conceded a goal yet.

[Dutch_guy]

You were actually directly referring to the other three times that Germany won due to a goal in the last 5 minutes:

It seems you're right ! Which is strange since I wasn't meaning to reffer to those 3 times they scored in the last 5 minutes, really , I don't know why I wrote that. Sorry for that.

Oh and for the record, those 3 games did give the German team quite a reputation.

I have a bit the feeling that you still have the 1974 Worldcup finals in mind when you refer to the German team undeservedly "stealing a victory"

Well not really, in that game the Germans scored twice in the first half (or very early in the second, don't know for sure), meaning we still had more than enough time left to repair the damage. A shame we lost, the individual class of our players was better, but we lost - we should have made a goal, we didn't. As much as I would like to say you stole the win, you didn't. Though I do maintain we had the better player, but that doesn't automaticly win you the game as was the case in '74.

Long story... Petkovic called his son to WC then he sent him home as Serbian public became mad. Pure nepotism. He called Nenad Djordjevic to be right back and he put him into game. It was the first great game for Djordjevic. And of course Roben did what he wanted on Serbian right side in first half. Koroman did't played from start. Savo Milosevic played in attack beacause he need now only one game to rich his 100 game for national team. Not to mention coward tactics - so called "bunker"

.

I must say the Serbs did impress me, especially Koroman and Zigic, they were close an several occaisions.

We can beat Argentina with drastical change in tactics and some players must play from start like Zigic and Koroman.

What tactical changes would you say are needed to beat Argentina ?

[Fragony]

Netherlands is average team and nothing more.

Serbia can do a whole lot better, but calling us 'average' is a bit much

[DukeofSerbia]

The worst game in the first round was Paraguay - England. In second untill now is England - T&T.

England had good defense, strong midfield (one of better) and average goalkeeper with pathetic strikers. Rooney is injured, Owen out of form and Crouch ... Backam is out of form, too, it's obvious.

[InsaneApache]

Stevie Gerrards goal was class.

[Fragony]

Stevie Gerrards goal was class.

Be ashamed anyway

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The worst game in the first round was Paraguay - England. In second untill now is England - T&T.

England had good defense, strong midfield (one of better) and average goalkeeper with pathetic strikers. Rooney is injured, Owen out of form and Crouch ... Backam is out of form, too, it's obvious.

Well when serbia are sent home tomorrow you can watch some better footie matches when england prove, after this slip up we are better than today's performance. Watch the sweden game and against a more attacking team the game will be better

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I do agree our offensive capabilities leave something to be desired. Sven should have taken Defoe or Bent instead of Walcott-especially since he doesn't seem to actually want to play him.

[Prodigal]

2-0 to england!!!!!

Errrr esqueeze me but I think you mean...

2-0 ENGLAND!!!

[DukeofSerbia]

Serbia can do a whole lot better, but calling us 'average' is a bit much

For me you are. Coward tactics of our couch was crucial. As we played as Croats against Brasil you would lose.

I must say the Serbs did impress me, especially Koroman and Zigic, they were close an several occaisions.

What to add? I watched game on Croatian state televison and I they know Serbian team much better then we know.

As you know, our group is "group of death".

What tactical changes would you say are needed to beat Argentina ?

100% offensive from start. Vidic (MU) is out because of injury and that's great loss for us. Zigic, Kezman and Ljuboja from start as strikers. No more Djordjevic as right back. Koroman from start in midfield. But, that will never happend.

P.S.
Lag on this forum is killing me...

[Dutch_guy]

Well to be fair, I didn't find Croatia to be playing as good as I thought they were capable of, but maybe they just weren't able to play there game against Brazil ?

Also why wouldn't your coach position Koroman on the right flank of the midfield?

Surely he must have left at least some impression after your game against us...

[Monarch]

Backam is out of form, too, it's obvious.

Depends by what you mean by out of form, IMO he was shocking at Euro 04, but IMO this is just the new way he plays, he's older now so he doesn't make blistering runs down the wing, get Lennon if you want that. But look who swung the ball in for Crouch, Beckham, look who basically scored the Paraguay goal, Beckham. To be honest I thought he'd jsut gone crap whilst at Madrid but I was pleasantly surprised with his performances, but then maybe I set my expectations very low.

Anywho, another three points, Rooney back, Rooney getting back to fitness, play him a bit in Sweden game, bit more for game vs Ecuador/Germany in last 16 and then he should be around his best for Argentina/Holland game (first test, which tbh I think we'll lose unless everyone, especially Rooney plays out of their skin).

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Wow, congrats to Trinidad and Tobago for the effort put in. England didn't play to full potential, but still, it was good fighting. Crouch's goal was long overdue and nice shot to Garrard.

Sweden should have scored so many times before the goal in the 89th minute. Good job to Sweden for getting first goal in the first round. They averaged 3 in prelims. Ha to Paraguay for getting kicked out.

[scotchedpommes]

England were poor today, and Trinidad and Tobago were unfortunate not to get
a goal at the very least. Also have to feel for Paraguay going out so painfully
yet again. At least it was not to undeserving Germans.

[Still have hope that Serbia can pull something out of the bag - and more
confident that Croatia can get out of their group.]

[Alexanderofmacedon]

England were poor today, and Trinidad and Tobago were unfortunate not to get
a goal at the very least. Also have to feel for Paraguay going out so painfully
yet again. At least it was not to undeserving Germans.

[Still have hope that Serbia can pull something out of the bag - and more
confident that Croatia can get out of their group.]

Just because Germany is the best doesn't mean they're undeserving.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Deustchland! Ftw!